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I highly doubt that there will be laws against eating animals ever.

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I don't think so either. I was just curious if it had been proven a necessity or not. (Just to let you know).

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Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?

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It's a nice break from ramming our heads down each others' throats. Plus, it adds perspective of 'are humans really better?'

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But has it been scientifically proven that it's a necesity?

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I don't know, neither do I care. I highly doubt that there will be laws against eating animals ever.

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They think they need it be healthy when nothing could be further from the truth.

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So eating meat is unhealthy? Explain that one.

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If you are concerned about the impact of vegetable agriculture on the environment, you should know that a vegetarian diet is better for the environment than a meat-based one, since the vast majority of grains and legumes raised today are used as feed for cattle. Rather than eating animals, such as cows, who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh, you can save many more plants’ lives (and destroy less land) by eating vegetables directly.

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I know I sound heartless, but I don't think I could ever give up meat, even if I wanted to. It's just a part of my diet that I couldn't give up, and on top of that I think it tastes good.

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So let me get this straight. You don't want animals tortured for no reason but if they're tortured to feed humans who can live without eating them you're "all for it"?

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Yup.

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Why? Surely human fetuses and animal fetuses can both feel pain, right?

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Once human abortion is abolished, I suppose I would start worrying about animal abortion. There really isn't any need to abort animals, so you have a point in saying that it's wrong.

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Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?

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Not sure.

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They think they need it be healthy when nothing could be further from the truth.

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That is true. It is proven that meat-eaters' risks of having heart probelms and cancer are much higher than people who abstain from meat. Also, a huge misconception is that if you don't eat meat, you don't get enough protein. That is also terribly false. Almost any food gives you some protein. So, if you don't live off candy alone, it is virtually impossible not to get enough protein.

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Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?

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That is a great qestion.

Since this animal rights thing seems to have been going on for awhile now and I have to get off soon. Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?

She's not eatin' bacon, not eatin' sausage
and she won't eat eggs,
Not eatin' chicken, not eatin' turkey,
she won't have a steak,
But I just can't help feelin' sorry
for this poor little lettuce head
You know, I can't stop cryin'
'Cause I know this broccoli's dead
Vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian
Vegetarian...she's a
Poor little cow, little sheep
Little fish how can I sleep?
When carrots are bleedin'
Plants are screamin' and tomatoes cry
You say "it's not so bad
They're only vegetables", that's what you said
Maybe I'm a murderer, but I'm hungry
And they're better off dead
Save a plant, eat a cow
I want beef, I want it now!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's red!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's dead!
maybe I should eat it raw
Let the blood run down my jaw
I'd eat people if it was legal
I'd eat people if it was legal!

- Say "Ten", Reel Big Fish

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Well, let's see...the majority of the world that eats meat.

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They think they need it be healthy when nothing could be further from the truth.

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I wonder how the plants feel about animal rights. I bet they're just dieing to have the world turn vegan. Poor plants. Why should all the plants have to be eaten and all the animals live?? I WANT PLANT RIGHTS!

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I know you're being sarcastic (at least I hope you are), but I'll answer this anyway.
Poor plants my a**! "I wonder how plants feel about animal rights." They don't feel anything because they don't have a brain or nervous system! Ugh, some people...

“What about plants?”

There is currently no reason to believe that plants experience pain because they are devoid of central nervous systems, nerve endings, and brains. It is theorized that animals are able to feel pain so that they can use it for self-protection purposes. For example, if you touch something hot and feel pain, you will learn from the pain that you should not touch that item in the future. Since plants cannot move from place to place and do not need to learn to avoid certain things, this sensation would be superfluous. From a physiological standpoint, plants are completely different from mammals. Unlike animals’ body parts, many perennial plants, fruits, and vegetables can be harvested over and over again without dying.

If you are concerned about the impact of vegetable agriculture on the environment, you should know that a vegetarian diet is better for the environment than a meat-based one, since the vast majority of grains and legumes raised today are used as feed for cattle. Rather than eating animals, such as cows, who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh, you can save many more plants’ lives (and destroy less land) by eating vegetables directly.

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I eat them because I get hungary.

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People eat junk food like fast food and chips and etc when they get hungry, but that's not a good excuse for eating junk food. (just another example)

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I don't want animals dieing horrible deaths for no purpose, but if it's to feed people, I'm all for it, baby.

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So let me get this straight. You don't want animals tortured for no reason but if they're tortured to feed humans who can live without eating them you're "all for it"? You're one crazy animal welfarist.
Maybe the Humane Farming Association would suit your interests more: www.hfa.org
I guess the big question here is this: Why eat an animal if you don't need to to live a healthy life?

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No, I haven't. But that's horrible.

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You're damn right it is.

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Animal abortion doesn't bother me, human abortion does.

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Why? Surely human fetuses and animal fetuses can both feel pain, right?

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Well, let's see...the majority of the world that eats meat.

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But has it been scientifically proven that it's a necesity? And yes, I know that everyone needs proteins, but there are other ways of getting protein.

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According to whom? (This is just another curiousity question.)

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Well, let's see...the majority of the world that eats meat.

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Oh come on, we eat animals out of convenience, it isn't easy to be veg and most people don't want to sacrifice their convenience to be one. There are meat alternatives out there that taste just as good as the real (dead) thing. (I know you told me you tried one of those once but not all of them are going to be good)

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I wonder how the plants feel about animal rights. I bet they're just dieing to have the world turn vegan. Poor plants. Why should all the plants have to be eaten and all the animals live?? I WANT PLANT RIGHTS!

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If you don't want animals to die, then why do you eat them?

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I eat them because I get hungary. I guess I should re-phrase myself...I don't want animals dieing horrible deaths for no purpose, but if it's to feed people, I'm all for it, baby.

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Haven't you heard that dogs are intentionally beaten before they are slaughtered because people think it makes the meat better? Or that cats are boiled alive? Sure it's culture or whatever but it's worrying. (and for the most part the tradition of dog-eating is based on myths and folklore)

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No, I haven't. But that's horrible.

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Hmmm, you never tried to disprove the abortion in meat production argument...was it because you couldn't find the pictures or just that you have nothing to say? If you can't find the pictures, I could email the links to them to you if you want.

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Animal abortion doesn't bother me, human abortion does.

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However, we used slaves out of convenience, we eat animals out of necesity.

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Oh come on, we eat animals out of convenience, it isn't easy to be veg and most people don't want to sacrifice their convenience to be one. There are meat alternatives out there that taste just as good as the real (dead) thing. (I know you told me you tried one of those once but not all of them are going to be good)

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it's not like I want animals to die.

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Hello? *knocks luvabug on head like a door* Is anybody home? If you don't want animals to die, then why do you eat them? Death is required in the production of meat, believe it or not.
OK, even if you're not concerned about the animals who fall victim to the meat industry, what about the people? http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2001/07/meatpacking.html http://www.factoryfarming.com/labor.htm http://www.poultry.org/labor.htm

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To be quite honest, I don't care.

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Haven't you heard that dogs are intentionally beaten before they are slaughtered because people think it makes the meat better? Or that cats are boiled alive? Sure it's culture or whatever but it's worrying. (and for the most part the tradition of dog-eating is based on myths and folklore) http://www.peta.org/feat/korea/ http://www.koreananimals.org/

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So the whole world should stop eating beef because it offends Hindus?

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No, I was using that as an example.

Hmmm, you never tried to disprove the abortion in meat production argument...was it because you couldn't find the pictures or just that you have nothing to say? If you can't find the pictures, I could email the links to them to you if you want.

Sorry to everyone for being off-topic once again.

How do we know anything? Everything's just a matter of perception.

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mean, back in B.C., the nomads living in freezing temperatures couldn't even find plants because there were none growing, so should they have just let themselves die off instead of eating buffalo and such?

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Umm... luvabug? She already covered that.

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Think about it, yes we did have to eat meat in the stone age, but that was to survive, not because the cave men liked the taste of it. (back then they had to go through a lot of trouble to get it and they probably did it only if they had to do it to survive)

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we eat animals out of necesity.

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According to whom? (This is just another curiousity question.)

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So the whole world should stop eating beef because it offends Hindus?

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In my opinion: If you don't like/agree with something, don't do it. If people started thinking like that instead of forcing things on others, this would be A LOT less complicated world.

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How do you know what animals are meant for? Did you create them?

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Nope, but neither did you, so how do you know that we weren't supposed to use them as a food source? I mean, back in B.C., the nomads living in freezing temperatures couldn't even find plants because there were none growing, so should they have just let themselves die off instead of eating buffalo and such?

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I consider people like you pro-human life because that's the only life you are pro for.

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Call me whatever you like, because I am in fact pro-human life. Don't get me wrong, I love animals and I'm against animal abuse, but I just don't feel it's wrong to eat them. Sorry.

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Well, do you consider slavery bad? They were just trying to get some work done and make life easier for themselves, right?

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Wrong, we were using humans and abusing them. I'm against animal abuse, so don't try and slam me on that one.
However, we used slaves out of convenience, we eat animals out of necesity.

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If you don't understand animal rights/vegetarianism, please don't make comments like this:

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Well seeing that I care more for the human race than I do for animals, I don't exactly spend all my time researching such topics, as I really don't care. Like I said, I'm against animal abuse, it's not like I want animals to die.

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How do you feel about cats and dogs being eaten in other countries? Would you consider them evil?

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To be quite honest, I don't care. Some country (I believe it's China) realized it was easier to skin dogs while they are still alive then when they are dead. So a coat-making company woul rap barbed wire around dogs' necks and raise them up until they were off the floor, spin them around, and then peel their skin off. THAT is the sort of thing I'm against. Using animals as food-not a bad thing.

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Surely Indians consider us to be at least somewhat evil because we eat one of their holiest animals (the cow).

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So the whole world should stop eating beef because it offends Hindus?

Here's another point on the discrimination argument: People eat pigs, cows, turkeys and chickens because they think they are stupid, dirty and deserve to be eaten. People in America would never eat a cat or dog because they know they are not scum-of-the-earth creatures. People who do eat dogs and cats have the perception that they are filthy and disgusting creatures. To quote Dr. Phil (sorry), There is no reality, only perception. You see the world how you want to see it. (I'm not referring to you luvabug in this sentence but to most people) Some people want to abort their babies because they think they will bring them nothing but bad things, while a person like you luvabug, wouldn't see it that way; you would try to give the baby the best life possible. Whether that would be with you or with an adoptive family. See? It's all about how you perceive things, you could see a pregnancy as the worst thing to happen to you or the best.
Getting back to the subject of meat-eating (sorry again), I think killing someone just because they taste good is just as stupid as a drug addict sacrificing his/her well-being or future just to get a high. (pardon me if that's offensive) Think about it, yes we did have to eat meat in the stone age, but that was to survive, not because the cave men liked the taste of it. (back then they had to go through a lot of trouble to get it and they probably did it only if they had to do it to survive) Now we don't need it, we usually eat it just because it tastes good (and usually it's only in how you flavor or season it that makes it taste good anyway).

OK, I've added one too many cents here, sorry.
Sayonara for now.

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If we didn't eat animals, the world would be even more populated, and I know how all you pro-choicers like to complain about how ending abortions would cause the population to go up dramatically. To stop eating animals would do the same.

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It always amazes me how people can still think this. Humans breed livestock. Farmers control their populations. It's about supply and demand. When the atkins diet craze hit and people were (and still are) eating more meat, guess what the farmers had to do? Catch more cows from the wild? No, they bred more. It's unrealistic to think that everyone in the world is going to go veg at once, the less meat people eat, the less animals are bred. To large farming operations, animals are just merchandise to be manufactured and sold. That's why these farms are often called factory farms. www.factoryfarming.com
"all you pro-choicers"? Did I ever say I was a prochoicer? I'm undecided. If I did get pregnant somehow I don't think I could get an abortion because it would just tear me up inside (emotionally I mean).

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Anyways, the animals are't being descriminated against, they aren't there because if their religion or how they look, they're there in the slaughter houses to help feed us.

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I see a lot of discrimination. We treat some animals like dirt (the farmed animals) while we treat other animals like kings (dogs, cats and other companion animals). Do you think they're happy about being killed? Do you think they skip merrily into the slaughterhouse saying "Ooo I'm gonna be somebody's meal!"? How do you feel about cats and dogs being eaten in other countries? Would you consider them evil? Surely Indians consider us to be at least somewhat evil because we eat one of their holiest animals (the cow).

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It's not like humans are doing something evil by killing animals, we're just feeding ourselves?
Is that so bad?

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Well, do you consider slavery bad? They were just trying to get some work done and make life easier for themselves, right? Think about it.

As I have said before, there is abortion in meat production too. Go to www.atourhands.com , go to animals as food, then go to slaughter, and go to the second/third page. There should be pics of aborted calves and pigs. (I would post the exact link to them but they may be taken out by the admin) Surely they must kick and fight as well.
If you don't understand animal rights/vegetarianism, please don't make comments like this:

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To be 100% honest, I saw that paragrapgh and I laughed because animals are meant to be eaten.

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How do you know what animals are meant for? Did you create them?
I consider people like you pro-human life because that's the only life you are pro for.
Go to your library, get Animal Liberation by Peter Singer and read it. Maybe it will help you understand animal rights a little more.
And check out this site too: www.meetyourmeat.com

Sorry for being off-topic (again).

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because animals are meant to be eaten.

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Animals are meant to be eaten by other animals, but not by humans. Humans were not made to eat meat.
Click on "Humans have Neither Fangs Nor Claws"

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I mean, it's proven that animals can suffer, while the suffering of a fetus is constantly debated. (I won't say whether a fetus can or cannot suffer because I simply do not know)

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Since you don't know, I'll tell you. The suffering of a fetus during an abortion is not debatable, it's a fact. They kick and they fight. If they couldn't feel anything, they wouldn't do that.

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“When I see cages crammed with chickens from battery farms thrown on trucks like bundles of trash, I see, with the eyes of my soul, the Umschlagplatz [the spot in the Warsaw Ghetto where Jews were forced onto trains leaving for the death camps]. When I go to a restaurant and see people devouring meat, I feel sick. I see a holocaust on their plates.”

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Hey luvabug, just out of curiousity, what do you think of PETA's "Holocaust on your Plate" campaign?

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To be 100% honest, I saw that paragrapgh and I laughed because animals are meant to be eaten. If we didn't eat animals, the world would be even more populated, and I know how all you pro-choicers like to complain about how ending abortions would cause the population to go up dramatically. To stop eating animals would do the same.
Anyways, the animals are't being descriminated against, they aren't there because if their religion or how they look, they're there in the slaughter houses to help feed us. It's not like humans are doing something evil by killing animals, we're just feeding ourselves?
Is that so bad?

Hey luvabug, just out of curiousity, what do you think of PETA's "Holocaust on your Plate" campaign? www.masskilling.com Since you compare abortion with the holocaust, this shouldn't be as ridiculous to you, right? I mean, it's proven that animals can suffer, while the suffering of a fetus is constantly debated. (I won't say whether a fetus can or cannot suffer because I simply do not know)
By the way, it wasn't PETA who made this comparison first, it was Issac Bashevis Singer.

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Well, anything can be compared to anything, but that doesn't mean that they are alike.

Let me spell it out for you: Abortion is not genocide * the Holocaust was genocide = Abortion is not the Holocaust.

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Abortion is a systematic way to get rid of the unwanted. So was the Holocaust. You can tell me that abortion is not the Holocaust as many times as you wish, I know that it's not. They're just extremly similar.

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I said it could be compared with genocide,

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Well, anything can be compared to anything, but that doesn't mean that they are alike.

Let me spell it out for you: Abortion is not genocide * the Holocaust was genocide = Abortion is not the Holocaust.

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To say anything other than that ("Abortion is genocide," for instance) is not only wildly inappropriate, but it is wildly stupid.

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I didn't say abortion was genocide, I said it could be compared with genocide, so really everything you just said, I agree with.