its alive right? the egg and sperm are together, so now its alive.

"No, we can't. 1/3 of our generation was murdered. "
Do any of you have a reliable source for this? Carelessly throwing around statistics doesn't do you any good.

Abortions are perfectly ethical.
You don't have a damn idea what you're talking about until you are pregnant and facing the decision. Imagine you are raped. You can't sleep, eat talk to your frinds or family or do anything because you are so depressed from being raped. And everytime you look down at that baby growing inside you that is half of the man that did those terrible things to you, you cry and hate yourself. Because that experience gives you nightmares and has ruined you life. Going through the pain of labor for a baby that reminds you of that awful man? NOT WORTH IT! Abortions are good, useful and humane. And don't you try to use those gross pictures to freak people out and force them to be anti-abortion, of course abortions are going to look gross. ANY SURGERY OR OPERATION YOU HAVE WILL LOOK GROSS! It is better for an unborn baby to suffer a painless and quick death than for a yougn girl to suffer the diffficulties of labor for a child she doesnt want and didn't ask for and to be depressed and traumatized for the rest of her life. Not to mention the baby carrying on the genes of the rapist. And plus think about it, would you want your parents to tell you that you were adopted because your dad had raped your mom? I certainly would not!

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No, we can't. 1/3 of our generation was murdered. So all you ****ing numbskulled idiots out there use protection or just keep your legs closed until you can raise a child... that should majorly cut down on abortions. If you were raped, then put your child up for adoption... simple as that.

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No, not as simple as that. I was 13 when I found out I was pregnant from being raped. If I kept the baby and then gave it up for adoption it would have ruined my life and I'm sorry but I choose my life over a baby that is part of the man who raped me, even if part of it was me. And no, it wouldnt be like cutting off your arm cause you need your arm, your arm helps you, a baby at the age of 13 just destroys you.

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everyone says its wrong no doubt but what if u were to be raped and u turned up pregnant would u want to keep that baby knowing that it was the result of being raped i think in most cases it is wrong but there are cases where it would be ok

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THE BABY DOES NOT ONLY BELONG TO THE RAPIST... IT BELONGS TO YOU AS WELL!!! WOULD YOU KILL YOUR OWN BLOOD!!! The baby has your blood in him/her... so its just like cutting off your arm... except that the "arm" has a brain and heart of its own.

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We can't have too many children in the world.

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No, we can't. 1/3 of our generation was murdered. So all you ****ing numbskulled idiots out there use protection or just keep your legs closed until you can raise a child... that should majorly cut down on abortions. If you were raped, then put your child up for adoption... simple as that. And a child with a disease is better than a dead child... dont you agree.

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1/3 of our generation was murdered before they were even born

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I agree with your avatar luvabug22, because abortion is a holocaust... And according to silentscream.org, 44,886,063 babies have been aborted in the US ALONE!!! That is much more than the number of Jews that were killed in the Hitler Holocaust(6 million)

Haha

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We're the only species that drinks the milk of another animal past infancy (except for dogs and cats but only when humans let them drink it).

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Wrong again. With or without human intervention, dogs and a few other mammals will sometimes adopt other baby animals (like kittens, bunnies, foxes, even wolves) and begin lactating when the mothering instinct kicks in. It's nature's way of insuring survival.

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Your arguement made no sense there. What the original message said was that humans were the only animals who drink milk past their own infancy- aka at age 30. It has nothing to do with adopting baby animals.

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Oh, well that's even better.

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Yea, it's just wonderful that 1/3 of our generation was murdered before they were even born...it's just wonderful.

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We can't have too many children in the world.

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And if things keep going how they are, there won't be enough.

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Wrong. 1 in every 3 pregnancies is terminated by abortion. Check your facts.

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Oh, well that's even better. We can't have too many children in the world.

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There are other ways of getting calcium, like calcium fortified orange juice for example. Don't get me started on milk. We're the only species that drinks the milk of another animal past infancy (except for dogs and cats but only when humans let them drink it). Think about it.

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Also, tell me why Chinese people, who eat very little dairy products have less cases of osteoporosis than Americans do? And did you know that excess protein in your diet can cause you to lose calcium from your bones? You're literally p***ing your bones away.

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I'd love to get into this with you, but this is an abortion thread, not a vegan thread.

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When I was a baby I had soy based formula and my mom can tell you I never had a single ear infection, a common occurance among kids these days. Coincidince? I think not.

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Neither have I, and our diets were probably a lot different from each other. We both must have good immune systems.

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So? For every baby aborted there are thousands of babies born.

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Wrong. 1 in every 3 pregnancies is terminated by abortion. Check your facts.

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When I was a baby I had soy based formula and my mom can tell you I never had a single ear infection, a common occurance among kids these days.

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When I was a baby I drank cow's milk all the time. I never had an ear infection either and I never broke a bone even though I've fallen hundreds of times. Go figure.

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We're the only species that drinks the milk of another animal past infancy (except for dogs and cats but only when humans let them drink it).

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Wrong again. With or without human intervention, dogs and a few other mammals will sometimes adopt other baby animals (like kittens, bunnies, foxes, even wolves) and begin lactating when the mothering instinct kicks in. It's nature's way of insuring survival.

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Also, tell me why Chinese people, who eat very little dairy products have less cases of osteoporosis than Americans do?

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It's probably because they're not as sedintary as we are. Most of them walk to get where they need to go or they use bicycles. Most americans use automobiles. Low activity is very bad for the bones.

Back on topic:

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Abortion is the termination of a human life!

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So? For every baby aborted there are thousands of babies born. Your species is almost 7 billion strong. You should be happy.

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I mean isnt it our own personal choice.

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This argument is so annoying. Reality check: right NOW it is "our" personal choice to abort. The question is, "Should it be are personal choice to abort?" If you do think that it should be the mother's personal choice to abort, why? Do you not think that the government should lay down laws? Because if the government did not lay down laws, then hey, everything would be "our personal choice." That would be great, huh? Of course it would not be. Why do you sound shocked that the government may take away a choice. It is not like this is the very first prohibition that has ever taken place. Lastly, I do not think that abortion should be an option, but I do think that it should be our personal choice to keep the baby, to give the baby up for adoption, or to stay abstinent until ready to have children.

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And if someone were to get an abortion how exactly would it affect other ppl besides the mother, the baby, and maybe the father, and that depends if he's around.

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Are you saying that since only three people are affected because of someone getting killed, that the killing is not wrong?? Seriously think about your stance. Be as logical as you can possibly be.

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We have the right 2 choose how we want 2 go about our pregnancy, and its not fair for women who want abortions 2 have sum1 else make the choice 4 them

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First off, the question is: "Should women have the right to go about their pregnancy however they want?" Really, should they have that right? IF killing a child is an option, should they still have that right? Think, think, think. If the child is human, your opinion on this issue should be made up in 2 seconds. And if you don't think the child is human, at what point do you think it becomes human? At any point the child is human, though, abortion should not be allowed. Abortion is the termination of a human life!

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but its better 2 know the option is still available just in case!!!!

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Yea, in case of what exactly? The absolutely only option abortion should be allowed is in the very rare case in which the mother and the child will die if the baby is born. So, if that was the exception you meant, the abortion rate would go down 99.99999999%.

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It's sort of like how a girl can not drink enough milk when she's young and not get enough calcium, but she isn't sickly. It will just affect her as she gets older.

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There are other ways of getting calcium, like calcium fortified orange juice for example. Don't get me started on milk. We're the only species that drinks the milk of another animal past infancy (except for dogs and cats but only when humans let them drink it). Think about it.
Also, tell me why Chinese people, who eat very little dairy products have less cases of osteoporosis than Americans do? And did you know that excess protein in your diet can cause you to lose calcium from your bones? You're literally p***ing your bones away.
www.milksucks.com
www.notmilk.com
http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/strong_bones.html
http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/building_bones.html
When I was a baby I had soy based formula and my mom can tell you I never had a single ear infection, a common occurance among kids these days. Coincidince? I think not.

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It's not balanced if you're not getting all the nutrients you need from all the food groups.

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Are you saying the ADA is lying?

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I've tried that stuff...you've gotta be strong to hold that stuff down.

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Which ones did you try? Not all of them are going to be terrific. I like gardenburger's chik'n patties and riblets. The chik'n patties are good with bbq sauce, no cheese required! Mmmm...sorry for going off topic there.

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If vegetarians and vegan are so sickly as you would think then why are they still alive?

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I never said they were sickly, I said they didn't get all the nutrients they needed. It's sort of like how a girl can not drink enough milk when she's young and not get enough calcium, but she isn't sickly. It will just affect her as she gets older.

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Like any other diet it has to be balanced

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It's not balanced if you're not getting all the nutrients you need from all the food groups.

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(delicious) meat substitutes. (try gardenburger)

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I've tried that stuff...you've gotta be strong to hold that stuff down.

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Please stop the ignorance, be truly pro-life and respect all life, human or not.

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I never said I was for the slaughtering of animals, so why don't you stop your assumptions and keep the debate on topic.

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If we can't use animals for food, what are we supposed to eat? Just plants? And then not get the nutrition we need from meat? Anyways, the slaughtering of animals and abortion are in no way connected, so keep animals out of the debate.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry I just had to laugh at that. You just totally ignored what I said about abortion in the slaughterhouse. If vegetarians and vegan are so sickly as you would think then why are they still alive? Are they on life support?
No. You can get enough nutrients you need from a veg diet. Like any other diet it has to be balanced. Look at this: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/adapaper.htm If you've been to the grocery store lately you'll see that there are plenty of nutritious things a vegetarian can eat, like (delicious) meat substitutes. (try gardenburger)
The ability of a fetus to feel pain is often debated and can be hard to prove, but the suffering of animals has been proven time and again.
Here are the link to the pictures from the site I posted earlier. (like I said before, YN won't let me post the images themselves on the boards)
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught57.jpg
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught55.jpg
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught59.jpg
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught58.jpg
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught61.jpg
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught54.jpg
http://www.atourhands.com/images/archive/slaughter/slaught56.jpg
Look at them now, they might not be here tomorrow.

Please stop the ignorance, be truly pro-life and respect all life, human or not.

Thank you.

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And if someone were to get an abortion how exactly would it affect other ppl besides the mother, the baby, and maybe the father

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It affects other people because some insurance companys cover abortions, so when you are paying your insurance company, you are paying for someones abortion. It also affects other people because it a woman does not have insurance, she can claim she's poverty stricken and have the government pay for her, and the government gets that money from taxes.

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Like i sed i'm not for abortions but i'm not going 2 hate sum1 who gets 1.

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Nobody hates women for having abortions, they pity them because sooner or later they realize that guilt is going to catch up to her, and she could slip into depression. They also pity her because she felt as if abortion was her only option. Nobody hates a woman for something like that, they just feel for her.

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but its better 2 know the option is still available just in case!!!!

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Just in case of what?

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If a young child was raped at, say, the age of 13 and happened to get pregnant, it would probably not be in her best interest to bring the baby to term.

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As I have stated time and time again, the suicide rate among girls/women who are raped and abort is higher than the suicide rate among girls/women who were raped and gave birth. So in fact, it would be in her best interest.

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Or, if a woman got pregnant and had been drinking and smoking heavily until she found out, and birth defects were almost guaranteed, that may not be the best situation for the baby either.

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She would have found out she was pregnant before those things would have affected the baby that much.

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To me, the crazed animal activist I am, the slaughter of animals for food is worse then abortion.

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If we can't use animals for food, what are we supposed to eat? Just plants? And then not get the nutrition we need from meat? Anyways, the slaughtering of animals and abortion are in no way connected, so keep animals out of the debate.

I don’t think abortion is terrible, as some people say. Even animals abort when it comes to their survival.

If a young child was raped at, say, the age of 13 and happened to get pregnant, it would probably not be in her best interest to bring the baby to term.

Or, if a woman got pregnant and had been drinking and smoking heavily until she found out, and birth defects were almost guaranteed, that may not be the best situation for the baby either.

However, if a woman was in a good position with her partner, had a stable home and could easily raise a child… An abortion then would be wrong, in my opinion.

To me, the crazed animal activist I am, the slaughter of animals for food is worse then abortion. I really can’t justify my opinion… Strange, eh?

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i have a thing about killing anything with a heart. i'm serious. it's weird actually. i can eat meat and all that but if i ever had to kill something with my own hands i don't think i could do it.

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There's a t-shirt I've seen that says "A Hamburger Stops a Beating Heart" I like to think of that in two ways, it stops the cow's heart, and it can stop yours due to heart disease.
You know, abortion is involved in meat production too. If a cow or a pig is slaughtered when she's pregnant they'll abort the calf/piglet no matter how early or late term the fetus is. Yes, I know the fetal pigs go to classrooms for dissection but what happens to the fetal calves? You want proof? Go to this website www.atourhands.com , go to animals as food, go to slaughter and the pics of aborted calves and piglets should be on the second or third page. (YN won't allow me to post them here)
Surely most non-veg people here couldn't kill an animal themselves to eat. But the thing is that you're just paying someone else to do it for you.
Animals feel pain too. They are not just "clever machines" that act like they feel pain. You know that recent news story about Koko the gorilla (the one who knows American Sign Language) telling her trainers that her tooth hurt? That proves that animals can feel pain and suffer from it.
Do what you want, but please see the websites below and make the most ethical decision.
www.meetyourmeat.com
www.factoryfarming.com
www.sentientbeings.org
www.poultry.org
www.bancruelfarms.org
www.tryvegetarian.org
www.christianveg.com
www.jesusveg.com
www.jewishveg.com
^I know you're not Jewish (I am BTW) but it is a good site for information especially when it comes to (what you call) the old testament.

Thank you.

I don't exactly agree w/ abortions but i dont think that we should make a law against. I mean isnt it