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The baby ( the ones who life is being taken) should be able to choose then if it wants to live or not. It did nothing to be put in that situation, on the other hand the parents did.

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A baby can't choose, so the parent's as it's gaurdians therefore have the right to make decisions for it.

Ohio, if your idea of self-pleasure worked, there would always be somebody saying, "Then legalize porn for 14 year olds!" and whatnot....

Well in the first month of pregnancy, the babies heart begins to beat, that shows sign of life.

Choices are good, but the choice to kill shouldn't be a choice.It is a life and has the right to live as you and I do.

It depends if you think a human is alive when its a fetus (and which stage) or when it exits its mother's womb. People have varying opinions on this and that is why abortion is such a controversial and difficult issue.

Would't you like to have the right to choose? Or would you rather be TOLD what to do by the law and ignorant people?

Personally, I like choice. I like options and opportunities and possibilities and making my own decisions.

It shouldn't always be about the mother's life. A raped woman is different, but a sexually active women shouldn't have the rirght to choose. The baby ( the ones who life is being taken) should be able to choose then if it wants to live or not. It did nothing to be put in that situation, on the other hand the parents did. They know what it takes to form a baby,and they participated in that activity. A life is a life, and taking a human life is wrong and unjust.

The thing you have to take into consideration, is that Abortion isn't really something that we all should just decide is ok or not ok. Either way the women in the situation to chooce if they want to get an abortion or not, deserve the right to CHOOSE. They deserve to decide their fate.

We (people not in this situation) have absolutely no right to bust in and claim that we know more about what they should do with their lives than they should, because of course NONE of us do. So I believe Abortion should be left legal, so the woman can decide on her own.

Maybe you, Joe thinks that abortion is wrong, and maybe Betty has been raped and is contemplating an abortion. Joe is a man, will never be in this situation and lives in Utah. Betty is depressed, divorced and lives in Florida. Why the hell should Joe have a say in Betty's life? The bottom line is: He shouldn't! He should shut his trap and live his own ******* life.

Abortion should be left legal. Just because it is legal does not mean that more abortions will take place. IT simply means it is ok with the law. If it is illegal, what will all the women who WANT abortions do? It doesn't matter if you take away the access to an abortion, if they want one, they will continue to want one. And what does this mean? If it is illegal you are not even giving women the chance, the opportunity, a sliver of responsibility for ones own life. Why don't we all just shut our traps and live our own lives for once and stop meddling in others.

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if they do all those things(act responsably) and the woman still get's pregnant then does she have the right to an abortion in your opinion?

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If they do all of those things the chances of pregnancy are slim to none. But if she does however end up pregnant then no abortion still shouldn't be an option. Having sex is a mature matter. Dealing the outcomed of sex is something that should as well be treated in a mature matter. The mature thing to do would be realizing that you did something that has effects, and dealing with those effects in away that is safe for all parties involved.

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"It is punishing them, well the mother, having to carry a baby she can't keep for 9 months(on the emotional and phisical level). And specially for someone who's been raped, because it was not even her choice to conceive it.
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I said that raped victims is a completely different story and in my opinion is more acceptable for abortion. But if a women is pregnant and the doctor senses that her life (physically or emotionally) is in danger, there are things that he can do to try to help and fix that problem. If the mother is absolutely going to die maybe then the aobrtion ( or c-section, depending on how far along she is) can take place.

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Note how I said a baby she can't keep, I think that's something you pro-lifers never take into consideration , the emotional stress(besides phisical, how is that spelled?!) the mother-to-be is put through if she is not allowed an abortion.

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Maybe that's something that she should have considered as well. You can't just have sex thinking that it's ok if you do happen to get pregnant because there is always the trusty ole abortion. Having sex just like everything else in life has it's advantages and disadvantages, you should know all of them and be more aware of all the possible situations. Controling urges and fighting temptations aren't that hard to do, if you need pleasure that bad then try self-pleasure. It's alot more safer.

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Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:
You all keep saying that it is a punishment for the parents to actually handle with maturity the situation that they pu themselfs into. A baby is still a human life when it is unborn. Ending a human life is it's death, death that in induced by another is considered murder, I consider this murder and punishment for the child. It's life is being taken and can no longer be lived. Parents if punished are punishing themselfs because they put themselfs in that situation. Abortion is not a very responsible way to handle that situation, sure like I said before, it is easy to handle a person or thing by killing it off but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. You know that in life the decisions you make have effects and you may not always choose the right thing to do, but when it comes down to do you can make the best of the bad situations and handle it with maturity and in a respectable,considerate matter. Rape is a completely different story that I and others have agreed should be taken seriously and have a different outcome. But those who willingly do it should just face their mistakes, not kill the innocent life off that they created. If they monitor their period,take birth control, and use a condom they really shouldn't have a problem.

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if they do all those things(act responsably) and the woman still get's pregnant then does she have the right to an abortion in your opinion?

Also I commented this in my last post an you didn't respond to it so here goes:

"It is punishing them, well the mother, having to carry a baby she can't keep for 9 months(on the emotional and phisical level). And specially for someone who's been raped, because it was not even her choice to conceive it.
"

Note how I said a baby she can't keep, I think that's something you pro-lifers never take into consideration , the emotional stress(besides phisical, how is that spelled?!) the mother-to-be is put through if she is not allowed an abortion.

You all keep saying that it is a punishment for the parents to actually handle with maturity the situation that they pu themselfs into. A baby is still a human life when it is unborn. Ending a human life is it's death, death that in induced by another is considered murder, I consider this murder and punishment for the child. It's life is being taken and can no longer be lived. Parents if punished are punishing themselfs because they put themselfs in that situation. Abortion is not a very responsible way to handle that situation, sure like I said before, it is easy to handle a person or thing by killing it off but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. You know that in life the decisions you make have effects and you may not always choose the right thing to do, but when it comes down to do you can make the best of the bad situations and handle it with maturity and in a respectable,considerate matter. Rape is a completely different story that I and others have agreed should be taken seriously and have a different outcome. But those who willingly do it should just face their mistakes, not kill the innocent life off that they created. If they monitor their period,take birth control, and use a condom they really shouldn't have a problem.

"Punishing them would make them do jail time or community service, not continuing to carry the child they created. And it's sad that you would consider it punishment. Children are not a punishment to their parents but a blessing. Yes, I know this is my opinion!"

It is punishing them, well the mother, having to carry a baby she can't keep for 9 months(on the emotional and phisical level). And specially for someone who's been raped, because it was not even her choice to conceive it.


"Abortion is running from the responsiblity of being pregnant, which is avoiding the situation. "

Like Yogore pointed out really well it isn't avoiding the situation, it's changing it.


"Yes you can be, but carrying a child you created is not a form of punishment for the parents. It is just something they need to deal with and accept."

yes, and their way of dealing with it is having an abortion, yes getting rid of it. Not allowing them to do that would be punishing them.


"No facing being pregnant would be to continue to be pregnant. Abortion is once again running from the pregnancy. To face it would to realize that you made a mistake and that you have to deal with that mistake not just abort it and get rid of the bad situation that you did in fact put yourself in."

They face or realize the fact, and then they deal with it(aborting it or not).


"If a girl doesn't want to get pregnant maybe she should watch her period and know when a good time to have sex is and isn't."

That I will agree with, but still that's not 100% effective always.

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Neither did the parents. They just wanted to have sex, not have a child.

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But they did what it takes to be put in the situation, the fetus did nothing but what it's pupose is to do.

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#1 way to make a child feel unloved: make having it a punishment.

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If it is put up for adoption then it wouldn't necessarily feel unloved. And having it IS NOT a punishment for the parents. It is a situation that they put themselfs in, so if anything it is punishment to themselfs.

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You must admit, mine was a problem and solution ot that problem. No one asks to be conceived, that's just being dumb.

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Sure when you don't want to deal with someone killing them is a solution. Not a right one,but it is a solution. Maybe we should all be able to do this then.

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You keep wanting to punish them.

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Punishing them would make them do jail time or community service, not continuing to carry the child they created. And it's sad that you would consider it punishment. Children are not a punishment to their parents but a blessing. Yes, I know this is my opinion!

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The fetus is not targeted. THe fetus is just part of the plan to solve the paren't's problem.

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Well if the fetus wasn't there then they wouldn't need a plan so yes it is being targeted.

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Except that leeches were relevant. Abortion is not the same as the death penalty. Fetuses are the same as leeches.

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Fetuses are not the same as leeches at all. Parents created the fetus,they didn't create the leech.

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No, it's not. Abortion fixes the problem of being pregnant. It is not avoiding the fact, it is changing it.

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Abortion is running from the responsiblity of being pregnant, which is avoiding the situation.

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You can be punished for things you have done.

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Yes you can be, but carrying a child you created is not a form of punishment for the parents. It is just something they need to deal with and accept.

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They are facing being pregnant. You don't have to continue having the fetus to face that you are pregnant. It's common sense.

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No facing being pregnant would be to continue to be pregnant. Abortion is once again running from the pregnancy. To face it would to realize that you made a mistake and that you have to deal with that mistake not just abort it and get rid of the bad situation that you did in fact put yourself in.

If a girl doesn't want to get pregnant maybe she should watch her period and know when a good time to have sex is and isn't.

LOL, yogore, I didn't really mind.

Thanks.

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I am a very pro-life pro-choicer.

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Nice, Freedom.

I'm sorry freedom.

So everyone can see what freedom said:

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I think I have come up with an opinion (marine, that one was for you) on this, and where I stand in the debate:

I am a very pro-life pro-choicer.

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Awww... you said so much that nobody will see what I said. And I wanted marine to see it. Oh well!

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The fetus didn't asked to be put in the situation or did anything to be in that situation

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Neither did the parents. They just wanted to have sex, not have a child.

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You take risk, you know what the outcome may or may not be so then expect it to happen and handle it properly if it does.

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#1 way to make a child feel unloved: make having it a punishment.

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No problem: Being concieved when you didn't ask to be.

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You must admit, mine was a problem and solution ot that problem. No one asks to be conceived, that's just being dumb.

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Abortion shouldn't be a solution for something that they are responsible for.

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You keep wanting to punish them.

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The fetus is being targeted by the parents.

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The fetus is not targeted. THe fetus is just part of the plan to solve the paren't's problem.

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Maybe my analogy was dumb but it was just an example, you know like yours with leeches.

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Except that leeches were relevant. Abortion is not the same as the death penalty. Fetuses are the same as leeches.

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Hvaing an abortion is dealing with it.

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No it's not, it's avoiding it.

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No, it's not. Abortion fixes the problem of being pregnant. It is not avoiding the fact, it is changing it.

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I don't see how you can say that's a punishment since it's something that she did.

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You can be punished for things you have done.

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It's life is coming to an end because it's parents concieved it and don't want to face it. That is more punishment then it would be for a mother to carry it!

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Opinion! How much punishment it is for the mother vs. the fetus is very much an opinion. The mother has to go through more to carry it than the fetus when aborted. They are facing being pregnant. You don't have to continue having the fetus to face that you are pregnant. It's common sense.

I think I have come up with an opinion (marine, that one was for you) on this, and where I stand in the debate:

I am a very pro-life pro-choicer.

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She is responcible for a condom breaking?

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No but she is responsible for the child being concieved in the first place. People know that condoms aren't 100% effective and yet they are taking the risk anyways. You take risk, you know what the outcome may or may not be so then expect it to happen and handle it properly if it does.

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] Exactly! Problem: Being Pregnant when you don't want to be
Soltuion: Abortion

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No problem: Being concieved when you didn't ask to be. Being pregnant when you dont want to be is a situation that the mother and father out themselfs in. The fetus didn't asked to be put in the situation or did anything to be in that situation.

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like punishment and being punishment are two different things. Because the fetus is not being targeted by the parents it is not being punished. Having an abortion is just part of thier solution.

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Differant but similiar as well. The fetus is being targeted by the parents. They don't want it to deal with it so they are aborting it. That is targeting it, noone or anything else is being targeted. Abortion shouldn't be a solution for something that they are responsible for.

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That is so dumb. Abortion is not apunishment. The death penalty is. The same thing can be both a punishment and not a punishment depending on the situation. For example, homework can be assigned because a class is loud, making it a punishment. It can also be assigned because the students need to learn, not punishing them.

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Maybe my analogy was dumb but it was just an example, you know like yours with leeches.

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Hvaing an abortion is dealing with it.

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No it's not, it's avoiding it.

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It is a punishment. Being forced to carry a child you dont want? The answer is simple, yes a punishment. once again, abortion is dealing with being pregnant

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Being forced to carry the child that she created, that she is responsible for is not a punishment. I don't see how you can say that's a punishment since it's something that she did. yet sat that killing it isn't a punishment for the fetus that did nothing but it was suppose to do, nothing but what it's purpose is. It's life is coming to an end because it's parents concieved it and don't want to face it. That is more punishment then it would be for a mother to carry it!