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That's your opinion that it's not that big of a deal. She shouldn't be forced to give up her life for nine montyhs. Her body would be majorly effected.

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She shouldn't be forsced to carry a child that she is not responsible for, which in most cases she is.

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It is because the mother can not/does not want to take care of it. That is different than punishing it.

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Alot of cases mothers don't want to take care of it, that doesn't mean that she should kill the child that she concieved. You create a "problem" then deal with that "problem".

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No, it's not. Just be3cause you choose not tohave something does not mean it is to punish the thing.

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Your taking it's life away from it, that is like punishing it.

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That has nothing to do with abortion. Quit throwing irrelevnat things in to try and make your case.

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That was an analogy. You said that it's not punishing the fetus by taking it's life. I was just saying that death penalty (also taking a life) is used as a punishment. So I think that abortion is like the fetus's punishment for it being formed (though not it's fault)

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Just because the parent's created it does not mean they should be forced to keep it or raise it. You're making it a punishment again. "They made the mistake, they should deal with the punishment" is what you are saying.

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No what I said was that the parents created the situation so then they should handle it. You make sound like it's a punishment for the mother to carry a child that she is responsible for. That's not a punishment for her, it is what she did and is dealing with as a result.

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It really isn't asking too much to take care of the child that she created for 9 months.

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That's your opinion that it's not that big of a deal. She shouldn't be forced to give up her life for nine montyhs. Her body would be majorly effected.

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This may be,but if it wasn't for him the child wouldn't be there in the first place so he should have a say in what goes on.

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A say yes, but it would be up to the mother for the final say. She has to carry the child.

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Once again if we were leeches I would be concerned with this issue but I am human and more worried about defending human rights. Which humans rights are the right to live.

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It's just a comparison. I'm not saying to be concerned about leeches, I was simply drawing comparisons.

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If it's not to punish the fetus what is it for?

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It is because the mother can not/does not want to take care of it. That is different than punishing it.

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It's to get rid of it by killing it. That is punishment.

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No, it's not. Just be3cause you choose not tohave something does not mean it is to punish the thing.

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People who do wrong recieve death penalty as a form of punishment.

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That has nothing to do with abortion. Quit throwing irrelevnat things in to try and make your case.

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The parents are responsible for it's being and they should have to accept the fact that they made a mistake and deal with the results from this.

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Just because the parent's created it does not mean they should be forced to keep it or raise it. You're making it a punishment again. "They made the mistake, they should deal with the punishment" is what you are saying.

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Because she's not the only one that can care for it.

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If the mother births it then she wouldn't be either, It really isn't asking too much to take care of the child that she created for 9 months.

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Once the child is born, yes. While the mother is pregnant, the father is useless to the fetus.

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This may be,but if it wasn't for him the child wouldn't be there in the first place so he should have a say in what goes on.

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And a leech is only a parasite because it's leech parents created it, but you don't consider that murder. (I am aware, that is a stretch).

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Once again if we were leeches I would be concerned with this issue but I am human and more worried about defending human rights. Which humans rights are the right to live.

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No, it is not it's fault for being, but abortion is not to punish the fetus. Pregnancy shouldn't be to punish the parents either. It dopesn't really matter why the fetus acts that way, it is still being a parasite.

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If it's not to punish the fetus what is it for? It's to get rid of it by killing it. That is punishment. People who do wrong recieve death penalty as a form of punishment. What wrong has a child done to deserve this? The parents are responsible for it's being and they should have to accept the fact that they made a mistake and deal with the results from this. Since according to you is a punishment.

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So, the mother that already births the child is responsible for having it too, why is that classified as murder then?

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Because she's not the only one that can care for it.

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I've realized this, I was just stating that the mohther and the father are both responsible and that it is his child as well.

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Once the child is born, yes. While the mother is pregnant, the father is useless to the fetus.

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The fetus is only being a "parasite" because it's parents created it. It's not it's fault for it's being.

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And a leech is only a parasite because it's leech parents created it, but you don't consider that murder. (I am aware, that is a stretch).

No, it is not it's fault for being, but abortion is not to punish the fetus. Pregnancy shouldn't be to punish the parents either. It dopesn't really matter why the fetus acts that way, it is still being a parasite.

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The father cannot bear the child.

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I've realized this, I was just stating that the mohther and the father are both responsible and that it is his child as well.

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Because the mother is solely responcible for having the child it is different than murder.

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So, the mother that already births the child is responsible for having it too, why is that classified as murder then?

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I don't think it should be classified as murder. The fetus is being a parasite.

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The fetus is only being a "parasite" because it's parents created it. It's not it's fault for it's being.

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She as well as the father are responsible for the childs being

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The father cannot bear the child.

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So this makes it ok to kill it?

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Because the mother is solely responcible for having the child it is different than murder.

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And just because it isn't born doesnt mean that it shouldn't be classified as murder.

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I don't think it should be classified as murder. The fetus is being a parasite.

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Exactly. it cannot live on its own or without the mother and the mother only. That is how it is different.

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So this makes it ok to kill it?

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Because it depends solely on the mother and effects her the most

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She as well as the father are responsible for the childs being. She shouldn't just be able to kill it. And just because it isn't born doesnt mean that it shouldn't be classified as murder.

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A fetus is not that different than a baby already born except for the fact that it is born and no longer is living off of only the mother.

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Exactly. it cannot live on its own or without the mother and the mother only. That is how it is different.

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So what if it depends on it's mother. Why should that be a factor?

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Because it depends solely on the mother and effects her the most.

So what if it depends on it's mother. Why should that be a factor?
And once again so what if it has no connection yet to the world, it is still human and killing a human is wrong like we have all agreed. That's all that should matter in my opinion.
A fetus is not that different than a baby already born except for the fact that it is born and no longer is living off of only the mother. A baby is a baby born or not. Death is death no matter how done. Murder is murder as long as it's done by another human. This is unjustified. It may be your child but that doesn't make killing it ok.

It has been explained, but I will try to summarize.

- Fetus's depend on the mother, a victim of murder does not depend on solely that person.
- A fetus has no connections to the world.
- A fetus is different than a person who is living post birth.
There are more, but these are all I can think of at the moment.

Because to me they are one in the same

Please Explain

A murder is unjustified. Abortion can be.

Killing a baby at all doesn't affect anybody but the family so why should that be illegal and abortion not? Death is death no matter how it's done or by who. Murder is murder as long as the death is caused by someone else. People are people, murdering people is wrong. Why should aborting not be classified as murder? Just a few things that I'm not understanding here.

What if the other people it *might* affect don't care anyway. To you, it wouldn't make a difference-you'd still think it was wrong. So why bring that up, anyway?

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Getting pregnant when you can't handle a baby does affect others (this is what I am talking about. I'm not talking about all sex). Either you get an abortion (which kills someone), or others have to help out - which is way better than abortion - but the point is that it does affect others.

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Did mine affect you? At most, it can affect your family. But the world and public people won't be affected.

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It would reduce irresponsible sex and thus parents who aren't ready for kids.

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It's the government getting WAY into people's live. Tyranny, anyone?

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As I said, hunting is most likely instinct. BUT, an animal thinks, "Man, I'm getting wet by this water." Now, the animal's instinct may tell it to go get shelter. BUT, it did think - you can't deny that.

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Getting wet is an instinct because you feel it, you react. We're the only animals that think.

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Again, they are not humans. Instincts mainly affect actions. You can think without doing any physical action.

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Behaviours involving physical action that is quite obvious is an instinct.

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Society includes everybody. I don't really know how the people around you reacted, but I can surely say a person in society was killed. If that is not an effect, I'm not sure if effects exist.

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Well, I never got parades of people wanting me arrested for it. See my point? It's not a huge public effect.

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If this "completely natural thing (having sex when you aren't ready to take care of children?)" makes people believe that the killing of humans is all of a sudden fine, then something is wrong. This "completely natural act (having sex when you aren't ready to take care of children?)" makes people believe that getting an abortion is not only fine, but good. This kills people. If the law strives to be just, this "completely natural act" needs to be restricted (at least) or prevented (ideally), so that lives are not continually taken away as a result of it.

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Sex is natural. Abortion is not. You can't regulate sex because that is a way to controlling and unprivate government and it violets rights. Killing can be justified.

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People need to take responsibility for their actions. You don't see a drunk driver who kills a carload of people get off the hook because he/she accidentally had too many drinks and are too young to be punished. Give me a break! If someone alters your drink, then they would get punished. It's very simple.

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Life is never that perfect. The drink screwer-upper will likely not get caught. A drunken driver is a different story. Unless drinks were shoved up his throat, he knew what he was doing. If your drink gets spiked, you don't even notice it. If you use protection when sex, you're responsible, you shouldn't pay because you were responsible.

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The strong pro-life girls here have determined beliefs and are not selfish enough to do a thing like that.

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Bogey, you know me by this site. You know I have very strong unchangable beliefs. You can't possibly say the above. Most pro-life girls haven't even had any form of intecourse, forced or not.

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Those would be the weak, liberal girls.

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Are you this dumb or you just want me to laugh?

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Now, if you are talking about the Morning After Pill, then that is a different story.

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If you get raped and he didin't use a condom and you weren't on Depo-Provera (I think that's the name), the patch, or the pill, you shouldn't be made to carry a child.

"It would reduce irresponsible sex and thus parents who aren't ready for kids."
How exactly?


"Celtic, _I_ do not = society. Society includes everybody. I don't really know how the people around you reacted, but I can surely say a person in society was killed. If that is not an effect, I'm not sure if effects exist."
With that explanation I still don't see how it affects society for someone to have an abortion.


"This "completely natural act (having sex when you aren't ready to take care of children?)" makes people believe that getting an abortion is not only fine, but good. This kills people. If the law strives to be just, this "completely natural act" needs to be restricted (at least) or prevented (ideally), so that lives are not continually taken away as a result of it."
I have never heard of anyone that thinks abortion is actually good(I know what you'll say "you don't know everyone" but I'll say it anyway), people think abortion is ok(I don't see it as murder therefore I think if it's not used as birth control it's ok) but not good.


"A responsible person would realize that birth control is not 100% effective, and thus that is not an excuse for an abortion. Responsible people would know that there is a chance of getting pregnant even if birth control is being used. They are taking the risk of becoming pregnant. It is not like birth control companies claim that there is no way a woman will become pregnant if she (or her partner) uses their birth control. People know the risks - and if not, then they should still be punished for being negligent and not realizing it."
Here we disagree again, I do not think someone who acts responsably should be punished, that's ridiculous. Are you suggesting people don't have sex so there's no chance at all to get pregnant?

Most women don't consider it birth control.

you have asked me if i believe that birth control is wrong... most birth control prevents pregnancy before the spernm attaches to the egg so in my opinion that in no way is murder. i do not think abortion is a good type of birth control, i don't even see how woman can consider it as a method of birth control