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Originally posted by Hydrok:
Boy bogey not on our game are we... the morning after pill does not stop a human life, it prevents conception.

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if you want to make the mornign after pill readily available OTC and cheap and easy to obtain, I'll let you ban abortion.

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It would reduce irresponsible sex and thus parents who aren't ready for kids.

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Are you saying banning abortion would do that?

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People know the risks - and if not, then they should still be punished for being negligent and not realizing it.

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You're too into punishing people.

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The strong pro-life girls here have determined beliefs and are not selfish enough to do a thing like that.

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The prolife girls here have determined beliefs too. And you cannot say they are selfish. Abortions aren't always about being selfish.

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Those would be the weak, liberal girls.

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Get rid of liberal in that statement and you've got it acurately. But being weak is not always a bad thing.

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Now, if you are talking about the Morning After Pill, then that is a different story. A human life is killed by the MAP, and thus it stops a human life and is wrong. But, with most birth control, a human life is not even started, so thus, a human life is not stopped.

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With the MAP, the sperm and egg have not yet attached so therefore like most birthcontrol prevents it as opposed to stopping it.

Now, Hydrok, it depends on how fast those sperm cells travel. But, one cannot take the MAP and positively confirm that she is not pregnant. Without certainty, it would be wrong to take the MAP.

Boy bogey not on our game are we... the morning after pill does not stop a human life, it prevents conception.

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And, sexuality, unless something such as violent necrophilia or the desire to rape, affects no one, unlike shoplifting which basically strips away your rights.

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Getting pregnant when you can't handle a baby does affect others (this is what I am talking about. I'm not talking about all sex). Either you get an abortion (which kills someone), or others have to help out - which is way better than abortion - but the point is that it does affect others.

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When you actually explore sex and desire and lust and your preferances when having sex, you'll know what I mean.

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I'll know that humans should be allowed to be killed, if they are not born?

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Sorry, my definition of human is more than just a four-limbed two-eyed mammal who can walk. I put the mind into it.

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So, the unborn is human (in your book) when brain waves kick in? Or is it when they start to talk and "voice their opinions"?

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An animal doesn't wake up and say "Geez, it's sunny. I should go hunt."

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As I said, hunting is most likely instinct. BUT, an animal thinks, "Man, I'm getting wet by this water." Now, the animal's instinct may tell it to go get shelter. BUT, it did think - you can't deny that.

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They know how to act automatically but don't analyze it.

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Again, they are not humans. Instincts mainly affect actions. You can think without doing any physical action.

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No, it's a ridiculous and dehumanizing reason for punishment.

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It would reduce irresponsible sex and thus parents who aren't ready for kids.

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Society? In what way does my abortion affect you?

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Celtic, I do not = society. Society includes everybody. I don't really know how the people around you reacted, but I can surely say a person in society was killed. If that is not an effect, I'm not sure if effects exist.

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Saying doing something completely human and natural is wrong is ridiculus and degrading.

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If this "completely natural thing (having sex when you aren't ready to take care of children?)" makes people believe that the killing of humans is all of a sudden fine, then something is wrong. This "completely natural act (having sex when you aren't ready to take care of children?)" makes people believe that getting an abortion is not only fine, but good. This kills people. If the law strives to be just, this "completely natural act" needs to be restricted (at least) or prevented (ideally), so that lives are not continually taken away as a result of it.

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What if you randomly ****ed your girlfriend? Don't come to me with the "I won't **** before marriage" excuse because things change, a drink can get spiked and you go crazy or the making out goes too far or you get drunk.

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People need to take responsibility for their actions. You don't see a drunk driver who kills a carload of people get off the hook because he/she accidentally had too many drinks and are too young to be punished. Give me a break! If someone alters your drink, then they would get punished. It's very simple.

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birth control is not 100% effective first of all, you could be a responsable person and use birth control and still get pregnant(therefore I believe you have the right to have an abortion, not only in the case of rape like you suggested).

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A responsible person would realize that birth control is not 100% effective, and thus that is not an excuse for an abortion. Responsible people would know that there is a chance of getting pregnant even if birth control is being used. They are taking the risk of becoming pregnant. It is not like birth control companies claim that there is no way a woman will become pregnant if she (or her partner) uses their birth control. People know the risks - and if not, then they should still be punished for being negligent and not realizing it.

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I would bet that the girls here that are denouncing abortion would be first in line if they got pregnant, and didn't want dear mommy and daddy finding out.

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The strong pro-life girls here have determined beliefs and are not selfish enough to do a thing like that.

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yeah, not wanting "mommy and daddy" to find out they had sex before marriage AND got pregnant!

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Those would be the weak, liberal girls.

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I still want to know if these people think that birth control is stopping a human life. Or more to the point, murder.

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This ridiculous question has been asked many times before on this thread and the Pro-lifers have answered with an absolute, "No, because a human life is not killed by birth control." Now, if you are talking about the Morning After Pill, then that is a different story. A human life is killed by the MAP, and thus it stops a human life and is wrong. But, with most birth control, a human life is not even started, so thus, a human life is not stopped.

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Originally posted by Maya:
yeah, not wanting "mommy and daddy" to find out they had sex before marriage AND got pregnant!

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I still want to know if these people think that birth control is stopping a human life. Or more to the point, murder.

yeah, not wanting "mommy and daddy" to find out they had sex before marriage AND got pregnant!

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Originally posted by Maya:

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Originally posted by Bogey:

"What about not letting women get abortions unless they were raped? "


"They just better be able to take care of the baby if the woman becomes pregnant. Otherwise, they are causing problems for society. This applies to married people as well - if they can't afford a baby or don't want a baby at a point in their lives, then they shouldn't be having sex and upping the chances of becoming pregnant infinitive percents"

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birth control is not 100% effective first of all, you could be a responsable person and use birth control and still get pregnant(therefore I believe you have the right to have an abortion, not only in the case of rape like you suggested).
I disagree with you on the second part as well.... it is plain stupid to wish/expect for people not to have sex so there's no chance at all for the woman to get pregnant, that is a ridiculous idea.

What pisses me off the most about "pro-lifers" is that they judge people they don't know(therefore there is no way they can know their personal situation, and all the factors that contribute to them deciding to have an abortion) calling them murderers, evil, etc...it is sick.

this goes to the girls debating, have you gotten pregnant and gone ahead and had the baby?probably no one on here has. I know you'll say "but if I DID get pregnant I would have it and give it up for adoption if I couldn't take care of it not murder it" but you can't say that because you do not know how you would react under the circumstances, maybe you'd freak out and abort the child, you don't know. So you can not judge someone that made that choice(this goes specially in the case of rape, but all in general).

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I would bet that the girls here that are denouncing abortion would be first in line if they got pregnant, and didn't want dear mommy and daddy finding out.

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Originally posted by Bogey:

"What about not letting women get abortions unless they were raped? "


"They just better be able to take care of the baby if the woman becomes pregnant. Otherwise, they are causing problems for society. This applies to married people as well - if they can't afford a baby or don't want a baby at a point in their lives, then they shouldn't be having sex and upping the chances of becoming pregnant infinitive percents"

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birth control is not 100% effective first of all, you could be a responsable person and use birth control and still get pregnant(therefore I believe you have the right to have an abortion, not only in the case of rape like you suggested).
I disagree with you on the second part as well.... it is plain stupid to wish/expect for people not to have sex so there's no chance at all for the woman to get pregnant, that is a ridiculous idea.

What pisses me off the most about "pro-lifers" is that they judge people they don't know(therefore there is no way they can know their personal situation, and all the factors that contribute to them deciding to have an abortion) calling them murderers, evil, etc...it is sick.

this goes to the girls debating, have you gotten pregnant and gone ahead and had the baby?probably no one on here has. I know you'll say "but if I DID get pregnant I would have it and give it up for adoption if I couldn't take care of it not murder it" but you can't say that because you do not know how you would react under the circumstances, maybe you'd freak out and abort the child, you don't know. So you can not judge someone that made that choice(this goes specially in the case of rape, but all in general).
My point is, you can be pro-life and believe abortion is murder and all you want but you can't judge someone that decided to have an abortion under circumstancesc that you do not know about. That just seems wrong to me, specially if you haven't been in the situation yourself.

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What are you saying? Give a harsher punishment?

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I can't believe you can actually be that naïve. Sex is personal. A shoplifter is a shoplifter. Sexuality and everything regarding it has thousands of shades in it you can't possibly compare to shoplifting. And, sexuality, unless something such as violent necrophilia or the desire to rape, affects no one, unlike shoplifting which basically strips away your rights.

When you actually explore sex and desire and lust and your preferances when having sex, you'll know what I mean.

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O, and I was supposed to know Celtic's definition of "think?" There are many people (at least I consider them to be) that don't have opinions or aren't heard. Your definition of a human being is so subjective.

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If you don't have an opinion, none at all, you don't have a mind. Sorry, my definition of human is more than just a four-limbed two-eyed mammal who can walk. I put the mind into it.

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It is not instinct to realize you are walking or to realize that it is bright outside or to realize that the ground is soft. Animals are able to do this. Animals can think - they aren't robots. Instinct for a wolf would be to chase down a rabbit because it was hungry. Instinct for a human would be to step aside because water is dropping from the ceiling on him/her.

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An animal doesn't wake up and say "Geez, it's sunny. I should go hunt.". They know how to act automatically but don't analyze it.

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It is punishment for the misuse of sex.

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No, it's a ridiculous and dehumanizing reason for punishment.

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They just better be able to take care of the baby if the woman becomes pregnant. Otherwise, they are causing problems for society. This applies to married people as well - if they can't afford a baby or don't want a baby at a point in their lives, then they shouldn't be having sex and upping the chances of becoming pregnant infinitive percents.

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Society? In what way does my abortion affect you?

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Allowing the killing of certain individuals because they are unborn is offensive and degrading.

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Saying doing something completely human and natural is wrong is ridiculus and degrading.

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I was saying that both the man and the woman would be punished if the woman became pregnant and needed assistance from society. Not only the woman.

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What if you randomly ****ed your girlfriend? Don't come to me with the "I won't **** before marriage" excuse because things change, a drink can get spiked and you go crazy or the making out goes too far or you get drunk.

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Are we talking about the "sexuality is alot more personal than shoplifting"?

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I got to start with this one. That has got to be one of the oddest and most random quotes the YN Mods could have taken from this huge "Abortion is Wrong" thread. Very random.

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Please, sexuality is something a lot more personal than shoplifting.

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What are you saying? Give a harsher punishment?

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I think the best way to fall on an agreement is to limit the number of abortions anyone can have. I mean, it's pretty rare to get raped twice, and in that way abortion can't be used as birth control either.

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What about not letting women get abortions unless they were raped?

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Ever heard of comparisons?

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Yeah, I've heard of them. Why didn't you use one?

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When I say think, I mean... have an opinion, be heard, etc

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O, and I was supposed to know Celtic's definition of "think?" There are many people (at least I consider them to be) that don't have opinions or aren't heard. Your definition of a human being is so subjective.

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That's an instinct behaviour

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It is not instinct to realize you are walking or to realize that it is bright outside or to realize that the ground is soft. Animals are able to do this. Animals can think - they aren't robots. Instinct for a wolf would be to chase down a rabbit because it was hungry. Instinct for a human would be to step aside because water is dropping from the ceiling on him/her.

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Under your government, the idea for punishment for sex is a violation of rights.

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It is punishment for the misuse of sex.

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Some people will wear a chastitiy belt till they get married, others won't.

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They just better be able to take care of the baby if the woman becomes pregnant. Otherwise, they are causing problems for society. This applies to married people as well - if they can't afford a baby or don't want a baby at a point in their lives, then they shouldn't be having sex and upping the chances of becoming pregnant infinitive percents.

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Punishment for sexuality is simply offensive and degrading.

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Allowing the killing of certain individuals because they are unborn is offensive and degrading.

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Well, I don't understand what you're saying.

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I was saying that both the man and the woman would be punished if the woman became pregnant and needed assistance from society. Not only the woman.

Hmm... I'd like to hear an answer to that one. I wonder how he or she feels about marriage versus union.

Oppionated, is birth control evil?

Yeah.

Are we talking about the "sexuality is alot more personal than shoplifting"?

Thanks . I would have never thought that'd end in the YN homepage.

Of all the quotes, that has got to be the funnest! It's great. Congrats Celtic!

Yeah, I noticed. I'm proud.

Celtic, did you notice your quote is on the home page? I laughed when I saw that.

Limits might be a good idea, but then again, having sex isn't exactly a one (coupon) per customer deal.