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Her life isn't taken away.

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A deteriorated mental state can take your life away, even if you remain breathing. A life in mental hospitals and when you can't live without pills for the mind is insane enough. Add a possible case of a family who abandons you for it and you're ruined.

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And I suppose your an expert? If the mothers life was in any danger the doctor would be able to tell and would try to do something about it.

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No, i am not an expert,m just informed. The mother's life doesnt have to be endangered for the pregnancy to cause wear to her body.

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Yogore, that's like asking, "Do you consider the womb to be an unborn human?" Of course I don't consider the womb to be a human, and I also don't believe the egg is a bird.

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you are choosing to misunderstand my comparison. I meant the egg to include the bird that is inside.

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Do you know all of the consequences? Anyway, I'm sure positive effects can come about from an "unwanted" pregnancy.

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No, which is my point exactly. And I wonder, what are these positive effects?

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Ohio agreed that there isn't premeditated malice. Her point was that premeditated malice is not necessary for something to be considered murder.

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The definition is open to some interpretation. I took it to mean especially premeditated malice as opposed to just malice in general.

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Ohio agreed that there isn't premeditated malice. Her point was that premeditated malice is not necessary for something to be considered murder. Thus, abortion can be considered murder, even though there is no premeditated malice (hopefully).

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Yes thank you Bogey

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Do you consider an egg to be a bird?

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Yogore, that's like asking, "Do you consider the womb to be an unborn human?" Of course I don't consider the womb to be a human, and I also don't believe the egg is a bird.

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But with the toll on her body and her emotional state could be ruined.

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Her life isn't taken away.

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You dont know all of the consequences that unwanted pregnancy can have.

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Do you know all of the consequences? Anyway, I'm sure positive effects can come about from an "unwanted" pregnancy.

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And it's not premediated malice, because even if it was planned, it was not out of malice.

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Ohio agreed that there isn't premeditated malice. Her point was that premeditated malice is not necessary for something to be considered murder. Thus, abortion can be considered murder, even though there is no premeditated malice (hopefully).

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But with the toll on her body and her emotional state could be ruined. You dont know all of the consequences that unwanted pregnancy can have.

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And I suppose your an expert? If the mothers life was in any danger the doctor would be able to tell and would try to do something about it.

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Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:

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Do you consider an egg to be a bird?
And it's not premediated malice, because even if it was planned, it was not out of malice.

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Sure but I don't know much about the birds reproductive system or about it's stages of the eggs growth.
And murder does not mean that it HAS to be out of malice only that, it is the cause of it alot.
Murder is the killing of something, and abortion is the killing of an unborn baby.

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Umm the definition was pretty clear about malice...

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Do you consider an egg to be a bird?
And it's not premediated malice, because even if it was planned, it was not out of malice.

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Sure but I don't know much about the birds reproductive system or about it's stages of the eggs growth.
And murder does not mean that it HAS to be out of malice only that, it is the cause of it alot.
Murder is the killing of something, and abortion is the killing of an unborn baby.

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They aren't being forced to give up their lifes. All they have to do is a little rearranging. Her life in most cases will go on!

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But with the toll on her body and her emotional state could be ruined. You dont know all of the consequences that unwanted pregnancy can have.

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Not all mothers love their children (or potential children) enough to give up their life as they know it and they shouldn't be forced to. Just because it normally happens does not mean it always does.

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They aren't being forced to give up their lifes. All they have to do is a little rearranging. Her life in most cases will go on!

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It didn't say only out of malice it said especially with premeditated malice. And unless the mother got pregnant by an alien or an animal why would it not be a human?

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Do you consider an egg to be a bird?
And it's not premediated malice, because even if it was planned, it was not out of malice.

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You need sources before you can throw facts out.

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I never threw facts out.

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If it is not out of malice, it's not murder. Plus, there is controversy over whether the fetus is counted as a human.

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1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

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It didn't say only out of malice it said especially with premeditated malice. And unless the mother got pregnant by an alien or an animal why would it not be a human?

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Aren't mothers supposed to love their children and defend them more than anyone else? How sad it is that this is an issue

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Not all mothers love their children (or potential children) enough to give up their life as they know it and they shouldn't be forced to. Just because it normally happens does not mean it always does.

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an UNBORN person, you just made my point

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Man, freedom, she told you!

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But would it survive at that point, outside of the womb?

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Nice attempt to try to get out of a sticky situation.

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if a woman has any morals at all she would rather her child live and herself die.

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I agree, oppinionted. Aren't mothers supposed to love their children and defend them more than anyone else? How sad it is that this is an issue.

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the child should feel blessed that its mother loved it enough to keep it.

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Again, I agree.

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yogore, what about a person on a life support machine, do you not concider that person a human being? they can't live on their own just like an unborn baby can't. as you can see your theory is flawed. just because someone is realiant upon someone or something else to live does not mean that they do not have equal rights as everyone else.

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Someone on lifesupport does not rely on a specific person as a fetus does, making the situation different.

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Your the one that wants to know, you figure it out! Lots of people commit suicide, not nessecarily the ones in foster homes.

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You need sources before you can throw facts out.

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But what if the mother couldnt take care of the child. And she had the kid and just left it off in a garbage can or something...A baby can't care for itself. Just like a fetus can't. I'm still pretty undecided about the whole matter. I can see things from both sides..

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A baby can be taken care of by someone else. A fetus on the other hand, cannot.

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Once again I'm gonna have to agree with oppinionted because It shouldn't matter what it depends on for survival the fact is that it is still no matter how many ways you reword it, a human life form, living! Murder, no matter how it's done or how early its done.

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Let's just look at the definition of murder.

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from dictionary.com
Murder n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock1.

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If it is not out of malice, it's not murder. Plus, there is controversy over whether the fetus is counted as a human.

Your the one that wants to know, you figure it out! Lots of people commit suicide, not nessecarily the ones in foster homes.

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Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:
Once again I'm gonna have to agree with oppinionted because It shouldn't matter what it depends on for survival the fact is that it is still no matter how many ways you reword it, a human life form, living! Murder, no matter how it's done or how early its done. And softball chica, they shouldnt leave it in a dumpster, they have places to leave it annonymously.

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I got a job for you, because I'm too lazy to do it myself... and you seem to be in search of truth *puke*

Go find figures that give a percentage of foster children commit suicide vs the entire under 18 population.

Once again I'm gonna have to agree with oppinionted because It shouldn't matter what it depends on for survival the fact is that it is still no matter how many ways you reword it, a human life form, living! Murder, no matter how it's done or how early its done. And softball chica, they shouldnt leave it in a dumpster, they have places to leave it annonymously.

For the record... I am sterilized... (well not totally but close to it) although... that was due to sports.

When some one is old and is on life support, as in a machine is keeping them alive, and there is no hope of recovery what do we do to them? We unplug them... So when a mother can not live and have a baby at the same time what do we do? unplug the fetus.

Now the funny thing here is that most right wingers and left wingers can agree that abortion is a bad thing. And MOST agree that if the mothers life is in danger or in cases of rape and incest the baby should be aborted.

Where things go awry is when we have christian nutcases and children that have no clue what they are talking about aka Ohiosweetgirl and oppinionated that think that ALL PEOPLE WHO HAVE ABORTIONS SHOULD GET LIFE IN JAIL OR THE DEATH PENALTY... that is bogus.

maybe someday in all of your ignorance of the world around you, you will be the victims of rape, or have a child that is going to be born with cerebral palsy, epilepsy and an acute case of MS all at once (I've seen it, god rest his soul) and then maybe you will see things from a different perspective.

yogore, what about a person on a life support machine, do you not concider that person a human being? they can't live on their own just like an unborn baby can't. as you can see your theory is flawed. just because someone is realiant upon someone or something else to live does not mean that they do not have equal rights as everyone else.

i also do not appreciate you calling these children parasites, they are so much more then that.