Abortion should be 100% illegal. But both sides of the situation has a good arguement. One side could say: "If abortion becomes illegal, tons of babies will be coming into the world born from mothers who are very young and mothers who will need lots of child support because they are poor and can't really afford a child." Then the other side would say something like this: "Abortion means killing a poor innocent children(not the 'lack of money' poor)who coudld've had lots of talents or could've found the cure for lukemiea. Killing is wrong so abortion is wrong. Maybe somebody elses kid was supposed to fall in love with your kid but couldn't because you killed your kid. Don't kill the children!"
Ok that last one was cheesy but do you get what i am sayin? (the love part). Just because you think you are savin yourself, think about how it will affect others. My own grandpa has lukemiea and even though someone might not find the cure during his lifetime, i would love them to find the cure soon. Your kid might've accomplished that but you were too busy thinking about your own life. There is no excuse good enough to kill a helpless baby. They can feel it when the doctor puts a saw-like thing in your uterus to kill it. And thats only one of the ways to kill it. So don't think they aren't alive. C'mon people you think to think about others than yourself. Everything you do could affect someone elses life. And sometimes not in a good way.
now for the randomness: if liberals are usually seen as wanting to protect the earth and all the creatures in it- i.e. greenpeace, spca, peta, etc.- well maybe maybe im generalizing here but usually liberals are also the ones who are so-called "pro-choice." (i call it pro-death) doesnt that seem like an oxymoron? i mean, no matter how much you love the fuzzy wuzzy wittle seals (are seals fuzzy wuzzy?) and the worms and the birdies, you have to admit that everything is connected. the fuzzy falcons eat the wuzzy worms, and as much as you want to protect ALL life, you have to go against their nature. so even if you save the worm's life, the falcon starves (incedentally, do falcons eat worms? maybe not)but even if you kill an unborn child to "protect" the mother, what good are you doing her? pregnancy is always risky, of course, but so is abortion. and who knows? that child you killed could have been the next leonardo da vinci or developed a cure for cancer. everything is connected, and that baby could have been connected to you. maybe someday you'll have a heart attack, and a new procedure that could have saved you doesn't work because the person who would have developed it died before they were born
and as for saying, "i didn't chose to have this baby, but i can choose to not have it"- well even if you didn't choose to sex (i.e. you were raped)do you still have the right to kill that child who did nothing to you? thats like saying that you didnt CHOOSE for there to be baby harp seals on that beach, so you can just go and kill them, right? im for the fuzzy wuzzies too, you know!
ya know when the subject about abortion pop's up in a conversation there's always those few people who say abortion isen't wrong, because the baby isen't born yet... news flash I'm sorry to burst your bubble but whoever thinks that your wrong... I did a school project on abortion my junior year of high school... the moment that the fetus starts developing inside you, is the moment that, that baby is a human being because your taking care of it from the get go... so technically that baby is born.... I've seen some of the horriable things that women put themselves through just so they can get an abortion.... in some cases the doctor that, that woman may have gone to has know clue what so ever of what there doing and not only can it put the baby in danger it also puts the mother in danger... in some cases the mother also dies... in my opinion if you didn't want a baby maybe you should have thought about having sex first and the consequences that may come out of it, for one night of fun... if you ask me abortion is wrong... and honestly i think it should be illegal to have an abortion...
i think abortion is very wrong.even if the mother is raped i think it shouldn't be taken out on the baby.the baby will be a whole different person from the man that raped the mother.the baby is innocent in the whole rape thing.the mother has to give the baby a chance to live.just think if you were a child of rape and your mother decided to abort you you wouldn't be here right now.
omg abortion is so not wrong!!!if a girl gets raped it totally wasn't her fault that she got pregnant so in other words she should have the right not to have her baby, and even if she wasn't ready it should be the mother's desicion weither she is ready or wants to have a baby or not and nobody should make that desicion for her!! if yall agree holla back! stasia xoxox
quote: If she didn't make the choice to have an abortion, why should she be traumatized?! It wasn't her choice, she was forced. Or she had to have it done because her life could be in danger.
People get tramatised when they are forced to do something.
Rape for example.
especially in this case, there child is being killed.
quote: Not all women feel traumatized after an abortion
It is difficult to tell how many women suffer from PASS, the symptoms could take years to come to a climax, or a matter of hours.
However, nearly half of all women who have abortions express "regrets" and the majorit of them say if they could go back, they wouldn't get an abortion.
1 woman suffering from PASS is 1 too many.
quote: Korith, nothing is going to change my mind that abortion isn't OK in some cases.
Well do you, or don't you support partial birth abortions?
You know women die on the abortion table too.
As a matter of fact, more women die from abortions than natural birth.
What is the maternal mortality from childbirth?
Reported average maternal mortality 1979 through 1986 was 9.1 per 100,000 deliveries, having declined from 11 to 7.4. Morbidity & Mortality Report, July 1991, Cent. Dis. Cont., Vol. 40, No. 55-1
If all causes of maternal death, other than those associated with live birth i.e., abortion, tubal pregnancy, molar pregnancy, etc., were excluded. . . . "the maternal mortality for 1985 would be 4.7 deaths per 100,000 live births." "Induced Termination of Preg . . . ," Council on Scientific Affairs, AMA; JAMA, Dec. 9, ’92, Vol. 268, No. 22, p. 3231 147
And the rate has dropped further since the above, but the U.S. Center for Disease Control (see Chapter 17) does not break down their figures. It continues to report a figure for "maternal mortality" that includes abortion and other deaths.
But some mothers do die?
In developed nations, almost never. The National Maternity Hospital in Dublin, Ireland, receives many complicated cases from around that nation and delivers 10% of all births in Ireland. In 10 years (1970-79) it delivered 74,317 births at more than 28 weeks gestation with only one woman dying from a cause related to her pregnancy. J. Murphy et al., Therapeutic Ab., The Medical Argument, Irish Med. J., Aug. ’82, Vol. 75, No. 8
Ed. note: And this report was from two decades ago. Since then medical care has improved substantially.
Abortion Deaths
These have been grossly under-reported. The expose’ on this is detailed in Lime 5 published by Life Dynamics. The author and his staff have verified 23 deaths from induced abortion in 1992-93. All were reported to state agencies. There is documentation from state health departments that 18 were reported to the Federal Center for Disease Control. However, the official report of the CDC listed only 2 deaths. "At Life Dynamics we knew abortion complications were grotesquely under-reported, but attributed it to garden-variety bureaucratic incompetence." But after continuing research, they documented "that the flawed abortion data from the CDC was not from ineptitude but of dishonesty and manipulation" after finding that "a large percentage of CDC employees had direct ties to the abortion industry," they retitled the CDC to stand for "Center for Damage Control" — "The CDC doesn’t oversee abortion, it justifies it." M. Crutcher, Lime 5-Exploited by Choice, Genesis Pub., Chapter 4, "Cooking the Books," p. 135.
The claim that relevant statistics can be collected from the place where the abortion was performed "is little short of science fiction."
"Complications following abortions performed in free-standing clinics is one of the most frequent gynecologic emergencies . . . encountered. Even life-endangering complications rarely come to the attention of the physician who performed the abortion unless the incident entails litigation. The statistics presented by Cates represent substantial under- reporting and disregard women’s reluctance to return to a clinic, where, in their mind, they received inadequate treatment." L. Iffy, "Second Trimester Abortions," JAMA, vol. 249, no. 5, Feb. 4, 1983, p. 588.
What can cause her death?
The main causes are infection, hemorrhage and uterine perforation.
How often do women get infection as a consequence of induced abortion?
A study from one of the most prestigious medical centers in the world, John Hopkins University, reported: "Occurrence of genital tract infection following elective abortion is a well-known complication." This institution reports rates up to 5.2% for first trimester abortions and up to 18.5% in midtrimester. Burkman et al., "Culture and Treatment Results in Endometritis Following Elective Abortion," Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 128, no. 5, 1977, pp. 556-559.
For the local freestanding abortion facility in your community, with far inferior quality of care, the number of such infections will be at least double that of such a medical center.
"One sequel to abortion can be a killer. This is pelvic abscess, almost always from a perforation of the uterus and sometimes also of the bowel," said two professors from UCLA, in reporting on four such cases. C. Gassner & C. Ballard, Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 48, p. 716 as reported in Emerg. Med. After Abortion-Abscess, vol. 19, no. 4, Apr. 1977
In an underdeveloped country, complications are more frequent and treatment is usually less available and effective.
Can infection cause damage?
Infection in the womb and tubes often does permanent damage. The Fallopian tube is a fragile organ, a very tiny bore tube. If infection injures it, it often seals shut. The typical infection involving these organs is pelvic inflammatory disease (PID).
Patients with Chlamydia Trachomatous infection of the cervix (13% in this series) who get induced abortion "run a 23% risk of developing PID." E. Quigstad et al., British Jour. of Venereal Disease, June 1982, p. 182
"Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID) is difficult to manage and often leads to infertility, even with prompt treatment . . . Approximately 10% of women will develop tubal adhesions leading to infertility after one episode of PID, 30% after two episodes, and more than 60% after three episodes." M. Spence, "PID: Detection & Treatment," Sexually Transmitted Disease Bulletin, John Hopkins Univ., vol. 3, no. 1, Feb. 1983
"Acute inflammatory conditions occur in 5% of the cases, whereas permanent complications such as chronic inflammatory conditions of the female organs, sterility, and ectopic [tubal] pregnancies are registered in 20-30% of all women . . . these are definitely higher in primigravidas [aborted for first pregnancy]."
Kodasek, "Artificial Termination of Pregnancy in Czechoslovakia," Internat’l Jour. GYN/OB, vol. 9, no. 3, 1971 Venereal disease, usually Gonorrhea or Chlamydia, causes PID. This, if present, vastly complicates an induced abortion. "Chlamydia trachomatous was cultured from the cervix in 70 of 557 women admitted for therapeutic abortion. Among the 70, 22 developed acute PID postoperatively (4% of the total)." E. Quigstad et al., "PID Associated with C. Trachomatous Infection, A Prospective Study," British Jour. of Venereal Disease, vol. 59, no. 3, 1982, pp. 189-192
Another study revealed a 17% incidence of post-abortal Chlamydia infection. Barbacci et al., "Post Abortal Endometritis and Chlamydia," OB & GYN, 68:686, 1986.
In a classic English study at a university hospital which reported on four years’ experience, "there was a 27% complication rate from infection." J.A. Stallworthy et al., "Legal Abortion: A Critical Assessment of its Risks," The Lancet, Dec. 4, 1971
What of bleeding?
Bleeding is common. Most get by, but some need blood transfusions. The Stallworthy study (above) reported that 9.5% needed transfusions. Most recent studies are reporting smaller percentages.
Are blood transfusions a cause of death in abortions?
Yes, and these deaths are never associated directly nor reported as statistics related to abortions. Here is how this works: First, we must know how many women need blood transfusions after getting induced abortions. These figures are hard to come by. The only controlled studies are from university medical enters, which do only a small fraction of all abortions. Over 90% of abortions in the U.S. and varying percentages in other nations are done in free-standing abortion chambers where the medical care is only a faint shadow of the ompetence of those medical centers. Women who hemorrhage from these abortions are sent to "real" hospitals for transfusions and surgery. The percentage who need transfusions then must remain an estimate as these commercial establishments do not report this. How many then? Let’s be conservative and say that one in every hundred needs a blood transfusion. If there are 1,600,000 abortions annually in the United States, this means that 1% or 16,000 women were transfused.
Viral hepatitis is transmitted in up to 10% of patients transfused. Ten percent of 16,000 is 1,600 women. Amer. Assn. Blood Banks and Amer. Red Cross, Circular Information, 1984, p. 6
An analysis of 300,000 cases of Hepatitis virus infection showed that deaths occurred from three causes:
322 from acute disease, 5100 from cirrhosis, and 1200 from liver cancer. This mortality rate is over 2%. R. Voelker, Hepatitis B: Planned Standard, Am. Med. News, Oct. 13, ‘89, pg 2.
Two percent of 1600 women means that ultimately 32 deaths result annually from abortions for this reason. AIDS is another threat. Two percent of AIDS has been acquired by blood transfusions. With recent careful screening techniques, this is now much less. Even so, 200-400 people in developed countries, per year, are still being exposed via blood transfusions. Noyes, "Transfusions Risk Despite Screening," Family Practice News, May 15, 1987.
In underdeveloped nations the AIDs threat ranges from seldom to common.
Are blood clots ever a problem?
Blood clots are one of the causes of death to mothers who deliver babies normally. They are also a cause of death in healthy young women who have abortions performed.
Embolism (floating objects in the blood that go to the lungs) is another problem. Childbirth is a normal process, and the body is well prepared for the birth of the child and the separation and expulsion of the placenta. Surgical abortion is an abnormal process, and slices the unripe placenta from the wall of the uterus into which its roots have grown. This sometimes causes the fluid around the baby, or other pieces of tissue or blood clots, to be forced into the mother’s circulation. These then travel to her lungs, causing damage and occasional death. This is also a major cause of maternal deaths from the salt poisoning method of abortion. For instance, pulmonary thromboembolism (blood clots to the lungs) was the cause of eight mothers dying from abortions, as reported to the U.S. Center for Disease Control. W. Cates et al., Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 132, p. 169 And this can occur in those as young as 14 years old. Pediatrics, vol. 68, no. 4, Oct. 1971
Also, amniotic fluid embolism has "emerged as an important cause of death from legally induced abortion." Of 15 cases, the risk seems to be greater after three months. Treatment is ineffective." R. Guidotti et al., Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 41, 1981, p. 257 153
And has an 80% mortality rate. S. Clark, Amniotic Fluid Embolism, the Female Patient, vol. 14, Aug. ’89, p. 50
What is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation?
This is a sudden drop in blood clotting ability which causes extensive internal bleeding and sometimes death. The classic paper was on hypertonic saline (salt poisoning) abortions (see reference below). H. Glueck et al., "Hypertonic Saline Abortion, Correlation with D.I.C.," JAMA, vol. 225, no. 1, July 2, 1973, pp. 28-29
"Saline-induced abortion is now the first or second most common cause of obstetric hypofibrinogenemia." [Same as D.I.C. above]. L. Talbert, Univ. of NC, "DIC More Common Threat with Use of Saline Abortion," Family Practice News, vol. 5, no. 19, Oct. 1975
In recent years this method has been seldom used. However, D.I.C. has also been caused by D&E and Prostaglandin abortions. White et al., ""D.I.C. Following Three Mid-Trimester Abortions," Anaesthesiology, vol. 58, 1983, pp. 99-100
Apart from deliberate mis-reporting to mask abortion death, are there others innocently missed?
Yes. For instance:
- Consider the mother who hemorrhaged, was transfused, got hepatitis, and died months later. Official cause of death, Hepatitis. Actual cause, abortion.
- A perforated uterus leads to pelvic abscess, sepsis (blood poisoning), and death. The official report of the cause of death may list pelvic abscess and septicemia. Abortion will not be listed.
- Abortion causes tubal pathology. She has an ectopic pregnancy years later and dies. The cause listed will be ectopic pregnancy. The actual cause, abortion.
- Deep depression and guilt following an abortion leads to suicide. The cause listed, suicide! Actual cause, abortion.
But many are misreported on the original death certificate and are not quite innocent.
- The kindhearted surgeon, unable to save the life of an abortion victim, feels that she and her family have been punished enough. He doesn’t want to ruin her and her family’s reputation in the community
— so he forgets to mention abortion on the death certificate.
- If the abortionist does the follow-up care and the patient dies from the abortion, the abortionist doesn’t want the reputation of being a butcher, so another cause is listed.
- Usually, however, a different doctor sees a patient who dies from the damage done from an abortion, but she and her family hotly deny the abortion. The abortion connection cannot be absolutely proven, and the new doctor fears a suit for malpractice or for defamation of character, and so he lists another cause.
You mean all maternal deaths from abortion are not reported?
That’s exactly correct. The official reporting agency for the U.S. government is the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia. Listen to this: During the two-year stretch of 1991 and ’92, the CDC officially reported only one mother each year dying from induced abortion. In fact, there are 20 documented deaths. Of these, 14 were reported directly to the CDC from state health agencies. The CDC only listed two of them. Mr. Crutcher’s book, Lime 5, which accuses this agency of gross dishonesty and malfeasance in its reporting, is extremely convincing. M. Crutcher, Life Dynamics, personal communication, July ’96 155
Even so, the situation today is better than the "5,000 to 10,000 women who died annually in the U.S.A. from back-alley abortions," isn’t it?
These figures, often cited by pro-abortionists, are simply false. During the debate on the floor of the U.S. Senate on the Hatch-Eagleton Pro-Life Amendment in 1983, the U.S. Bureau of Vital Statistics provided the data on such deaths. Its reports showed that you must go back to the pre-Penicillin era to find more than 1,000 maternal deaths per year from illegal and legal abortions combined. The precipitous drop in maternal deaths in the 1950s and ‘60s occurred while abortions were still illegal. Before the first state legalized abortions in 1966, the total deaths were down to 120 per year. By 1972, before the Supreme Court legalized abortion in all 50 states, it was down to 39 per year in the entire U.S. Since legalization, the slow decline has continued, so that now the only difference is that more mothers are dying from legal, rather than illegal abortions.
U.S. BUREAU OF VITAL STATISTICS CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL
Reported Maternal Deaths from YEAR Illegal Abortion in U.S.
1940 1,679 1950 316 1960 289 1966 120 First State Legalized in 1967 1970 128 1972 39 Supreme Court Decision in 1973 1977 21 1981 8
Taken from U.S. Senate graph
What of pregnancy and abortion in teenagers?
Early on, it was thought that pregnancy in young teenagers was more risky than in older women. But recent studies have shown that teenage mothers have no more risks during pregnancy and labor, and their babies fare just as well as their more mature sisters’ babies, if they have had good prenatal care.
"We have found that teenage mothers, given proper care, have the least complications in childbirth. The younger the mother, the better the birth. If there are more problems, society makes it so, not biology." B. Sutton-Smith, Jour. of Youth and Adolescence As reported in the New York Times, April 24, 1979
"No relationship between mother’s physical growth and maturation and adverse pregnancy course or outcome was demonstrated. Sukanich et al., "Physical Maturity and Pregnancy Outcome Under 16 Years," Pediatrics, vol. 78, no. 1, July 1986, p. 31
Dr. Jerome Johnson of John Hopkins University, and Dr. Felix Heald, Professor of Pediatrics, University of Maryland, agree that the fact that teenage mothers often have low birth weight babies is not due to "a pregnant teenager’s biologic destiny." They pointed to the fact that the cause for this almost invariably is due to the lack of adequate prenatal care. "With optimal care, the outcome of an adolescent pregnancy can be as successful as the outcome of a non-adolescent pregnancy." Family Practice News, Dec. 15, 1975
"The overall incidence of pregnancy complications among adolescents 16 years and younger is similar to that reported for older women." E. Hopkins, "Pregnancy Complications Not Higher in Teens," OB-GYN News, vol. 15, no. 10, May 1980 "Obstetric and neonatal risks for teenagers over 15 are no greater than for women in their twenties, provided they receive adequate care." There is evidence that in 15- to 17-year old women, pregnancy may even be healthier than in older ages. E. McAnarney, "Pregnancy May Be Safer," OB-GYN News, Jan. 1978 Pediatrics, vol. 6, no. 2, Feb. 1978, pp. 199-205 F. Avey, Canada Col. Family Physicians, "Pregnant Teens . . ." Family Practice News, Jan. 15, 1987, p. 14
But the abortion picture is different, particularly in regard to cervical damage.
After years of legalized abortion experience, a pro-abortion professor of OB/GYN at the University of Newcastle-on-Tyne reported on his follow-up, ranging from two to twelve years, of 50 teenage mothers who had been aborted by him. He noted that "the cervix of the young teenager, pregnant for the first time, is invariably small and tightly closed and especially liable to damage on dilatation." He reported on the "rather dismal" results of their 53 subsequent pregnancies: Six had another induced abortion. Nineteen had spontaneous miscarriages. One delivered a stillborn baby at 6 months. Six babies died between birth and 2 years. Twenty-one babies survived J. Russell, "Sexual Activity and Its Consequences in the Teenager." Clinics in OB, GYN, vol. 1, no. 3, Dec. 1974, pp. 683-698
"Physical and emotional damage from abortion is greater in a young girl. Adolescent abortion candidates differ from their sexually mature counterparts, and these differences contribute to high morbidity." They have immature cervixes and "run the risk of a difficult, potentially traumatic dilatation." The use of laminaria "in no way mitigates our present concern over the problems of abortion." 158 C. Cowell, Problems of Adolescent Abortion, Ortho Panel 14, Toronto General Hospital
"The younger the patient, the greater the gestation (age of the unborn), the higher the complication rate. . . . Some of the most catastrophic complications occur in teenagers."
"Eighty-seven percent (87%) of 486 obstetricians and gynecologists had to hospitalize at least one patient this year due to complications of legal abortions." M. Bulfin, M.D., OB-GYN Observer, Oct.-Nov. 1975
Bush DOES have the right to take away pre-brith abortions. At that point the baby CAN surivie on its own, it is a DEVELOPED HUMAN BEING. While the mother may suffer because she has a child, the child does not have to die. Notice, at this point I refer to it as a child and not a fetus.
As someone who strongly favours animal rights I can't bring myself to favour abortion after the 2nd trimester. However, before the 3rd trimester has begun the fetus simply isn't developed enough to have acquired intelligence or conciousness. Look thorugh the omnipresent fog of emotive language and apply some empirical thought to the issue.
I know it's more then that one word an emotion, I've went through it. But, that is what some people call it 'depression'.
quote:should be
I think you mean 'shouldn't be'...
If she didn't make the choice to have an abortion, why should she be traumatized?! It wasn't her choice, she was forced. Or she had to have it done because her life could be in danger.
quote:People who get abortions, don't believe in adoption.
Oh really? What baout that 10% who HAVE to get abortions? Does that mean that they don't believe in adoption? I believe in adoption even though I had an abortion.
Not all women feel traumatized after an abortion, some get at the hospital and then say 'Oh God... I can't do this' Others 'Yes, it'll all be over' and not feel a thing after. Some do.
The first 2 weeks of becoming a human the fetus doesn't have a brain, how could it identify with it's surroundings without a brain? Yes, I know, very slim someone whould find out they're pregnant the first two weeks, but it does happen.
I thought pre-birth was the second trimester? Not the 3rd. Or can it be performed at both times? (that doesn't really matter)
That I didn't know that happened. I thought it was at a different scale. Not before it is born, excuse me.
Korith, nothing is going to change my mind that abortion isn't OK in some cases. -Sunset
quote: She shouldn't have any stress or depression. It wasn't her fault that she needed one and she shouldn't beat herself up about it.
It is a traumatic experience.
Like loosing a limb. It is horrible for a mother to know that the life that was once in her was sucked out (literally).
quote: depressed'
This is cheapening the emotion that is felt.
It is a traumatic experience for anyone be in the same room someone was killed it. Like if a bus ran over someone in front of you, or if someone was shot in front of you.
Abortion, even if it was the persons choice to have it. Traumatizes people.
quote: If a women who was forced into having an abortion (god forbid) I also don't think she shouldn't be 'depressed' about that either
So if someone kills a child, the mother should be traumatized because it was someone else who did it?
quote: she can always adopt or have another child
People who get abortions, don't believe in adoption.
quote: It isn't fair for anyone to live with that.
Yet you would have this available to all women.
So another bad man can make another woman have an abortion, on any day of the week. Abortion ruins people's lives, just as much a have a child does. At least with adoption, the child has the opportunity to have a life.
quote: Why would a fetus care if she or he lived? It doesn't know that it can live or what life means.
So I could kill you on the basis that you might not enjoy the future? I could say, "Well she might have gotten rapped tomorrow! I was stopping that from be possible!"
A fetus is aware that it is alive, when an umbilical cord starts to strangle it, it fights to stay alive. I kicks when it is hungry, or whatever. I moves to areas that are comfortable. It is alive and knows it, it also knows if it's life is in danger.
quote: Also, not having abortion to a point can cheapen other people's lives and not just the fetus
This is different, I was speaking about the value of life, not the quality.
When life no longer has any value, then it can be given and taken on a whim.
quote: Bush, had no right to take away pre-birth abortions either. That is a differnt debate that was random.
This goes along with abortion.
Now before you said that an abortion should occure in the first 2 weeks. Now an partial birth abortion, the child is near birth, meaning that it can everything you can short of intelligent speech. It is a developed human being, with eyes that can see, ears that can here, a mouth that can make noises to indicate it is hunger, thirsty, sad, or laugh.
Beofre the child is born, almost hours before, it is pulled out of the mother feet first. Then (with the head still in the mother) it's skull is cut open, and brain is removed.
That is medieval.
This is a person. A baby! It cannot argue it's own case. It cannot ask you not to for it's own sake. And because of this, we feel we can kill it, simply because the head hasn't come out yet.
Is this what you are saying is ok? This is how we have progressed as human beings? Cutting out other people's brains who cannot object to it?
Could you watch that? Could you perform that?
This is the utmost cheapening of the value of life as it come short of random murders.
It is only logical that such a practice be banned.
Well Korith, after reading that over a few times I've concluded from what I understood is that if some women who needed an abortion has stress afterwards I wouldn't know what to tell her. She shouldn't have any stress or depression. It wasn't her fault that she needed one and she shouldn't beat herself up about it.
If a women who was forced into having an abortion (god forbid) I also don't think she shouldn't be 'depressed' about that either, it was her partners decision and maybe she should've left him for it or before he made her get an abortion. (I'm not saying all men do this)
If a women made that decision all by herself (or ran off), and had the abortion because of an inconvenience she also shouldn't beat herself up about it, why? Because she made a choice to wait untill she was ready and she can always adopt or have another child. It's very sad to say that, but that's what I feel.
Say I'm selfish all you want.
I'm not going to blame this women, those side effects are very real, I'm not going to lie. And thank God for her to bring those side effects up for other women who are struggling. It isn't fair for anyone to live with that.
You're right, a fetus or a child whatever you want to call it, should have a decision. To a point. Why would a fetus care if she or he lived? It doesn't know that it can live or what life means.
Korith, I do see where you're coming from, but I still think abortion is OK. Also, not having abortion to a point can cheapen other people's lives and not just the fetus.
Bush, had no right to take away pre-birth abortions either. That is a differnt debate that was random.
quote: If someone has stress after an abortion, that is her problem. It's to late and she should've thought about it before she done it.
But wait a minute...
What if she NEEDED the abortion?
PASS is more than just stress, it is a horrible side effect to an abortion, that perhaps the mother did not want.
Remember with abortions being so easy to get now, women are being forced to get them.
(14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy) )
Back to PASS though. Here are some symptoms from that website.
quote: When the reactions and feelings in the first 3 months following an abortion are severe, causing such problems as:
Self-harm, strong suicidal thoughts or suicide attempts Increase in dangerous and/or unhealthy activities (alcohol/drug abuse, anorexia/bulimia, compulsive over-eating, cutting, casual and indifferent sex and other inappropriate risk-taking behaviors) Depression that is stronger than just 'a little sadness or the blues' Inability to perform normal self-care activities Inability to function normally in her job or in school Inability to take care of or relate to her existing children or function normally in her other relationships (i.e. with a spouse, partner, other family member or friends) A desire to immediately get pregnant and 'replace' the baby that was aborted, even when all the circumstances that led her to 'choose abortion' the first time are still in place.
Others
quote: Other PASS problems could include short and/or long term problems with:
emotions, and dealing with emotional issues struggles with depression continued suicidal thoughts or attempts anxiety and panic disorder addictions of all kinds difficulty sleeping and sleeping problems disturbing dreams and/or nightmares problems with phobias, or increase in severity of existing phobias eating disorders "replacement baby" syndrome repeated unplanned pregnancies with additional abortions repeated unplanned pregnancies carried to term "atonement marriage", where the woman marries the partner from the abortion, to help justify the abortion trouble with relationships and dealing with partners distress at the sight of other pregnant women, other people's babies and children inability to deal with or socialize with other pregnant women, other people's babies and children codependence and inability to make decisions easily problems with severe and disproportionate anger work and school problems (unable to function normally) problems bonding with and caring for existing children or new babies distress and problems with later pregnancy added emotional issues and problems when dealing with future infertility or other physical complications resulting from the abortion. unhealthy obsession with excelling at work or school, to justify the abortion
And please do not blame the woman here for the sake of protecting abortion.
If a man goes to war and gets PTSD, it isn't his fault.
Many women, although pro-abortionist call their movement pro-(Choice), do not Choose abortion, but instead they feel it is forced on them given the circumstances their dealt.
Money, Job, Relationship, not ready to be a mother. They see abortion as a sure fire way to get rid of a problem... permanently.
But they don't know what happens during an abortion. Or how they can live with themselves after.
Far be it from me, (A man endowed with all evil penis) tell a Woman what to do with her body. But I believe we are AL (man and woman alike) responsible for the world are children grow up in, and should have some say in whether or not they are born.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health
There you go. That is the amount of women who have abortions because of health issues.
I don't want to be responsible for someone dieing. However, I don't want to condone murder because a child being born is such an burden for the better part of a year.
Do you see where I am coming from Sunset? Abortion cheapens the value of life.
Topics 
