quote:

Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:
Im for choice too. I like being able to choose what shoes I wear, what outfits I wear, when I sleep, when I eat, what I eat, what I watch on TV, how often I get to watch TV,what I do on the internet, basically when I do anything at all.

I don't like it when people have the choices to rape, abuse, molest, beat, steal,kill,etc. I don't know too many people that are for those choices. And if abortion is not done, what happens? Think about that and think about what happens when it is done and tell me how that is not taking a life. Which ultimately is murder when induced.

Well when the mom has that unwanted child, that child is the one who will get abused and turn around and steal, kill, murder, rape people.

Im for choice too. I like being able to choose what shoes I wear, what outfits I wear, when I sleep, when I eat, what I eat, what I watch on TV, how often I get to watch TV,what I do on the internet, basically when I do anything at all.

I don't like it when people have the choices to rape, abuse, molest, beat, steal,kill,etc. I don't know too many people that are for those choices. And if abortion is not done, what happens? Think about that and think about what happens when it is done and tell me how that is not taking a life. Which ultimately is murder when induced.

My point is not whether abortion is wrong or right but that the woman should have a choice.

Everyone is different and the enitirety of America cannot be bogged down with a generalization such as, "Abortion is outlawed; no one can perform it." Extinuating circumstances must be taken into consideration before something becomes law. There will be certain situations where a mother would need an abortion (such as ones I've already seen made mention here) and therefore abortion can't be outlawed entirely.

Yes, I believe the act itself is wrong. I'm not "pro-abortion." I am pro-choice because it is not mine nor yours nor the government's responsibility to decide what a woman should or shouldn't do with her body and her unborn child.

If I was in Congress and I had a choice of allowing absolutely no abortion or abortion in any case, I would choose the latter simply because I don't believe in taking away others own free will and choices. What we really need, though, is a compromise.

Instead of focusing on abortion maybe we should focus on the people having abortions. They are the stupid tards who bring idiots into the world. Don't tell me that aborted fetus could be the next president, because presidents dont come from trailerparks, or broken families. Even if the person got close, who says they are any good?

Lets put it this way, girls under 20 having kids, it runs in the family. Look how old that girls mom is, it doesnt take a genius to figure out the connection here. That 16 year olds daughter is gonna cr@p out some more kids who are gonna have kids at 16 also. Just think if she had a son then you might have a couple young girls knocked up right before he gets sent to prison for breaking into your kicthen high on speed looking for your money.

We need to take attention off gay marriage, tsunami, and iraq, and start focusing on these retards who pop out kids. One of these little kids cost 1.5million to raise. You think that 16 year old mom has that kind of money? She cant even pay for the electricty bill.. So guess where that money is coming from? YOU. thats right every god damn dollar out of our pockets to support guys in jail, cops, wellfare, and the damn court building where they shouldnt be at in the first place.

This is how abuse starts you have this 16 year old pissed off mom who wants to go out and sex some guy and snort meth, where does here kid go? she locks them in a room and ends up forgetting about them for 3 days. So now you have this abused kid growing up gonna do the same to their kids. Then when the kid is old enough to think for themselves he's gonna break into your car still your stereo and knock up a couple more girls.

its a never ending cycle.

DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA AND I CAN ALREADY SEE THE EFFECTS ON YN.

quote:

And some people HAVE been through the situation, they understand it, and they are still pro-life.

I agree.

quote:

Abortion...what can i say about it? Well i dont agree with it but sometimes there are situations u are in and thats one of the options ppl chose. I say no more. Sum ppl are to violent towards this issue but some ppl dont understand it until they have been through the situation.

So, you'd rather kill the baby inside you, a life form that is your own flesh and blood because you are too afraid to face that difficult situation??

Just something that came to mind, thought I'd share...

Last year in genetics, we were talking about conception, pregnancy and all that jazz, and my teacher (an EXTREME pro-choicer...) showed us this picture. What is was is, tests showed something wrong with a baby who was not born yet, and doctors performed an operation while the fetus was still in the womb. I don't quite remember how they cut into the uterus, but the fetus's hand was sticking out, and when the doctor went to tuck the hand back in, the fetus grabbed the doctor's finger...

How is that not life?

quote:

Now luvabug, you quote as well. A lot

I don't quote other pro-lifers and argue with them like she does.

quote:

When you say abortion is wrong you are saying that choice is wrong

Yup.

quote:

just let the damn person abort if they want... why cant you stay out of other peoples effin lives?

The same reason the government can't let people murder other people. It's wrong.

quote:

but some ppl dont understand it until they have been through the situation.

And some people HAVE been through the situation, they understand it, and they are still pro-life.

Abortion...what can i say about it? Well i dont agree with it but sometimes there are situations u are in and thats one of the options ppl chose. I say no more. Sum ppl are to violent towards this issue but some ppl dont understand it until they have been through the situation.

quote:

Abortion is necessary IF AND ONLY IF it endangers the life of both mother and child.

I will explain more... Like if... the mother has some kind of disease which could affect her life as well as the baby's life. Abortion may be necessary. But I want pro-life so I would rather have the baby be killed in a natural way than for the mother to decide it's death.

quote:

You guys will never understand that sometimes abortion is necessary will you?

Abortion is necessary IF AND ONLY IF it endangers the life of both mother and child. But if you abort it for selfish reasons e.g. unplanned pregnancy, don't want to care for the baby, not enough money, have education to think about, have affairs to think about... these are reasons that make abortion wrong because you deliberately kill a child because you think your affairs and the things you do everyday are more important than a life inside you.

quote:

just let the damn person abort if they want... why cant you stay out of other peoples effin lives?

You are the type of person who is ungrateful. Every child born is a wonderful thing and should be cherished. If you were aborted by your mother as you believe that every person can do whatever they want, then I would pity you because if your mom aborted you, you wouldn't be here.

quote:

I wish to clarify what jamaica17 is saying before someone provides her an alternative orifice. She, like the (incredibly vast, overwhelmingly-close-to-100%) majority of you all, has an argument and sticks to it.

thanks I do stick with my arguement.

quote:

The extra factors: rape, drugs, forceful child's father, are the evil factors of the process, if present.

To give birth to a child is not an evil thing.

I so agree.

In my effort to be a nicer person I wish to clarify what jamaica17 is saying before someone provides her an alternative orifice. She, like the (incredibly vast, overwhelmingly-close-to-100%) majority of you all, has an argument and sticks to it.

I just want to respect that, just as I do for the (80+%) majority of NMers/YNers. (Some of you have the arguments to rile me, but you too are capable of showing respect at times.)

She is saying that pregnancy is not evil: both the process and the result are of the opposite orientation.

The extra factors: rape, drugs, forceful child's father, are the evil factors of the process, if present.

To give birth to a child is not an evil thing.

P.S.: I may have broadband access here, but I did not know peope were posting around me. Yes, I know that I restated an argument, but it seemed to need to be.

quote:

just let the damn person abort if they want... why cant you stay out of other peoples effin lives?

It interfers with another human's life. Same reason we object to murder, involuntary man-slaughter, work related deaths, etc.

quote:

just let the damn person abort if they want... why cant you stay out of other peoples effin lives?

We could – there is no doubt about that. But, we as humans have a thing called morality instilled in us. Morality helps us deduce what's right and what's wrong. When another human gets unjustifiably killed, our human morality helps us conclude that this was wrong. When we conclude that something is wrong, our human morality motivates us to try to stop it. This is how human nature works. Why should we stop human nature and not try to do what is right, which in this case is try to stop abortion?

Your statement might have had some rationale, if the unborn human being were not a human being. But, it is in fact a human being. Thus, human reason and morality would tell us that abortion is wrong.

just let the damn person abort if they want... why cant you stay out of other peoples effin lives?

quote:

What I said is: it's evil to make someone carry a child if they can't (for whatever reason)...

But why evil?? I think it might be a burden, but evil??? no, that is too strong a word to describe pregnancy. Anyway, doing drugs and committing suicide is evil.. even abortion, but to say that carrying a child is evil even if she is forced or not is NOT evil. Having a baby, whether forced or not is never evil

quote:

Bogey-
I'm not ignoring basic biology. I'm referring to embryos and zygotes. This is one of the points I was trying to make. We have different definitions of life. I do not consider "the unborn" to be alive for quite a while. I'm not sure exactly where I draw the line, but you cannot deny that it spends time as a cluster of cells undergoing mitosis before it takes on any human shape and is able to preform any life functions. You can say that the individual cells are alive, but they aren't functioning together as a human yet.

You see, Finn, you are still trying to refute basic biology. The unborn is clearly alive and is “performing life functions,” from the moment of its existence (moment of conception) till death. Also, the unborn is indeed an “organism,” beginning at the moment of conception, which you also denied in an earlier post. This is the basic biology I am talking about. Yes, the unborn is a “cluster of cells,” but I am not too ignorant to realize that I too am a “cluster of cells.” It seems that you are a bit shallow in regards to this issue and are judging too much on appearance and not enough on the substance of the new being. Science does tell us that the unborn is a human being (organism) from the moment of conception until death. You cannot reasonably deny this. Your (pro-choicers) only hope is to try to prove to the world why unborn humans are not as important as born humans or why younger unborn humans aren’t as important as older unborn humans – and you have to do this without sounding downright preposterous and sick. That is your only hope. It’s pretty clear as to which side in the abortion argument has the logical, humane, and scientific support.

quote:

Now you could say that abstienice is the 100% way to never get pregnant...but that's not a real answer.

Right, because humans are not self-controlled and they need sex - even when they are not ready to have children.

You guys make me laugh with your stupid leniency towards people who know darn well that what they are doing is imprudent.

quote:

Sex happens, aboritions happen. It may seem like murder in your eyes. And partially it is. You are getting rid of a life force. But it's a choice that should be there.

May I ask why the "choice should be there"?

quote:

It's not that I hate life. It's just I don't always have the energy to give a damn.

Ikki, you obviously do have the energy to give a damn, since you are an avid pro-choice advocate on these boards. If you sincerely did not have the energy to give a damn, you would not really have/show a stance on this issue.

quote:

Sometimes, it would just be too much pain and suffering for someone hwo sin't really "there", if you know hwat I mean. It's the same as "pulling the plug". If they aren't really LIVING, and I mean beyond breathing, it's not always worth it.

First off, you can't prove before birth that this will definitely be the case. There have been many totally unexpected recoveries. So, this is not a solid reason to keep abortion legal.

Secondly, do you want abortion legal to all, just because you want to give the mothers who would possibly have children who may not "be all there" the option for abortion? You want it available to every single pregnant woman, just because this one rare case could possibly happen? Again, that doesn't seem very logical.

quote:

What I said is: it's evil to make someone carry a child if they can't

Did you mean, "if they can't," OR "if they don't want to"? There is a key difference.

quote:

But sometimes it's just not possible to have a child or carry one for nine months so then people opt for abortion

First off, I am not really sure if your statement is correct. With modern-day technology it is very rare, if possible, that the mother would "not possibly be able to carry a child." C-Sections are always available. Anyway, the birthing process is the natural process - it is much safer than an operation such as abortion.

So, Maya, are you now only for abortion if the woman "cannot possibly be able to carry the child for 9 months." This is a very, very rare case. Also, would you still want abortion to be open to all, just because of this one case?

quote:

You guys will never understand that sometimes abortion is necessary will you?

It's hard to understand a falsity.

quote:

What I said is: it's evil to make someone carry a child if they can't (for whatever reason)...

Then let me go to hell. If I can save lifes and be considered evil then so be it. It's worth it.

quote:

No one blames the "child". But sometimes it's just not possible to have a child or carry one for nine months so then people opt for abortion...That doesn't mean you are blaming the fetus.

Maybe not blaming the fetus but it is being punished. It's life is being taken from it so the mother can carry on with her lifestyle. As I said many many times, if the doctor knew something was wrong and was dangerous for the mother and ultimately dangerous for the fetus then they could do something about. That's the only time that it should be "necessary".

quote:

Oh yes, I'm a life hater ... You guys will never understand that sometimes abortion is necessary will you? Why don't you talk to someone who's had an abortion,it will give you a better understanding of the issue

Not life hater just life descriminater. And I have talked to people that had an abortion. People however are different. Some are glad they had one and others regret it. So actually talking with someone that has had one does no good, and definately didn't change my stance at all.