When you say that we are saying that choice is wrong you are saying that we are against all choices and that isn't true. We are pro-choice about many other things, just not one's right to choose to take anothers life.

To everyone who believes that abortion should be legalized because women should have a "choice":

HYPOTHETICALLY: I I believe that we should have the "choice" to run around without clothes on; I believe that teenagers should have the "choice" of bringing drugs and alcohol to school; I believe that we should have the "choice" to follow laws we don't like.

If I had all these beliefs and wanted people to have these options, does that make them right? Should we allow these things just because people should have "choices"? People already MADE their choice. They chose to have sex even though they did not want a child.

Pro-Choicers are just advocating second-chance choices, but in life, there are no second chances.

When you say abortion is wrong you are saying that choice is wrong everyone is entitled to choice and opinons.

Now luvabug, you quote as well. A lot.

Bogey-
I'm not ignoring basic biology. I'm referring to embryos and zygotes. This is one of the points I was trying to make. We have different definitions of life. I do not consider "the unborn" to be alive for quite a while. I'm not sure exactly where I draw the line, but you cannot deny that it spends time as a cluster of cells undergoing mitosis before it takes on any human shape and is able to preform any life functions. You can say that the individual cells are alive, but they aren't functioning together as a human yet.

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Whatever. I am glad you are pro-life and it isn't me who is stating about cows in the first place.

You're missing the point. Pretty much every time I post anything you quote me and try to argue. I'm trying to get you to realize that we're BOTH pro-life, and it would be VERY nice if you stopped trying to argue with me by restating what I say.

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If you can jusitfy defending a nonsentient cluster of cells, you can't see anything odd in defending an actual organism.

Finn, by stating this, you are suggesting that the unborn is not an organism, which totally throws off your credibility. Let's not get irrational here. We shouldn't reject extremely basic biology.

Oh and by the way, other animals have nothing to do with this. There are several reasons why these debates never go anywhere.

1. We can't stay on subject. Someone always has to bring up gay marriage for some reason. Or a different topic.
2. When we do go off subject, it's usually a hot button issue and then attention shifts to that.
3. Pro-lifers tend to be very hardcore. Pro-choicers tend to be very hardcore. No one is getting their opinion changed any time soon.
4. Newbies come on the threads and state the already stated. This is not entirely their fault, no one wants to read a 157 page debate, but nonetheless...
5. Everyone makes the same arguments over and over.
6. The two camps here seem to have different definitions of life, so we're not exactly on the same page as to who's rights are being taken away.
7. Everyone is going to continue to say "This is life this is life" and "Don't take away choice, we need choice". Then reasons will be stated and restated and the process will cycle for a few more hundred pages, as it's been doing.
8. Either way we're not going to change anything so this doesn't matter.

I am not trying to make a point. I am just saying that we aren't going anywhere.

Worms? No, most people defend lifeforms that are a tad more complex than worms...or human zygotes. Other species are just as important as humans, however, and there is nothing strange about defending them. If you can jusitfy defending a nonsentient cluster of cells, you can't see anything odd in defending an actual organism.

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I don't know if you were trying to debate or something, or just stating stuff about cows. But just incase you forgot again, I'm pro-life...just like you.

Whatever. I am glad you are pro-life and it isn't me who is stating about cows in the first place. It was yogore. i was just pointing out that he is making this situation funny by stating about cows and stuff when this situation is serious.

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Every human baby, kitten, puppy, tiger cub, bear cub, deer calf, wolf pup, bunny, lion cub, elephant calf, tadpole, duckling, or baby gorilla born in the world is special and important.

yeah, but sadly, more and more people would rather save and raise ducks and kittens than their OWN human offspring.

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How do you know? Have you ever asked a cow? (I should try that sometime...)

Have you ever asked a fetus? Why would you go defend something that is not one of our fellow human beings? That is like defending some worm than defending a person.

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Because COWS don't care about their offspring getting murdered or aborted. WE humans do and I try to preserve life by saying that abortion is wrong because every human life whether born or not or in the process of being born IS SPECIAL AND IMPORTANT.

I don't know if you were trying to debate or something, or just stating stuff about cows. But just incase you forgot again, I'm pro-life...just like you.

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Because COWS don't care about their offspring getting murdered or aborted.

Jamaica, have you ever tried to get near a cow and her baby? The cow would most likely head-butt you or kick you. Don't forget, cows are much stronger than you, and they know that. I got between a moose and her calf once and I swear I'll never do that again. She nearly trampled me. Get too close to a bear's baby and you'll probably be dead before you know it. Get too close to a stray dog's babies, you might lose your hand. I watched a documentary about animal emotions, and on that documentary a monkey's baby was accidentally killed by another monkey. The monkey was obviously upset. She screamed at the other monkeys and held the baby's body close to her for days. It was really sad to watch. Animals do care about their children being killed. You're just too ignorant to notice.

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because every human life whether born or not or in the process of being born IS SPECIAL AND IMPORTANT.

Every human baby, kitten, puppy, tiger cub, bear cub, deer calf, wolf pup, bunny, lion cub, elephant calf, tadpole, duckling, or baby gorilla born in the world is special and important.

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Because COWS don't care about their offspring getting murdered or aborted.

How do you know? Have you ever asked a cow? (I should try that sometime...)

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Yeah, actually, people do complain about that.

Because COWS don't care about their offspring getting murdered or aborted. WE humans do and I try to preserve life by saying that abortion is wrong because every human life whether born or not or in the process of being born IS SPECIAL AND IMPORTANT.

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It may not be able to live outside the womb yet but it is still living.

I agree with Ohiosweetgirl.

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That I know of(tell me if I'm wrong), you aren't allowed to abort two days before you're supposed to give birth. Two days before it's born it's the same, we agree on that, but 6 months before it's not.

WHATEVER.. Abortion is still WRONG.

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talk about idiotic answers...

Let's talk about that shall we?? OH, my answers are NOT idiotic.. But anyone who says that a fetus isn't considered a human life form and one who says that fetuses are NOT important and people who give more importantance to COWS.. that is what is considered IDIOTIC answers.

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Odd, I always thought that wanting to be murdered was normal...

Really?? I guess when you want to be murdered, that is NOT normal. It's being a psychotic person. DUH.

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Let's use extra punctuation!!! It makes us look WAY cool!!!!

Only someone who was just proven wrong would say such an immature thing.

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Usually the family is involved in the decision. Atleast they were in all experiances where I've dealt with or heard about abortion situations.

Yup, well can you give us an un-biased source that the family is usually involved? Because in all the cases I've heard of, girls have gotten abortions without their parents knowing.

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Cows are living, but no ones complaining about them being murdered.

Yeah, actually, people do complain about that.

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Because the livings rights should be taken away for the unborn, right?

No rights are being taken away, they're being given.