quote:

yes bogey, like when the mother's life is in danger for example.

Would another example be when a few days before birth, the mother feels as if she would not be able to handle giving her child up for adoption, so she decides to have an abortion? That definitely would be considered to be a necessary abortion, and it would be justified whether the child could survive outside of the womb or not, right? I mean, if the mother tells us that it is necessary, it is necessary, right? And if it is necessary, then the abortion is justified, right? We cannot judge, right?

quote:

You claimed that you are pro-choice not because of the fact that the child can’t survive out of the womb, but because it is sometimes necessary to kill your child. Would you still allow the mother to kill her human child even if it could survive out of the womb, because it could still be “necessary”? Because you claimed that the fact that the child can’t survive out of the womb was not a factor in your being pro-choice, and that it was the “necessity” that makes you pro-choice, aren’t you in favor of the mother killing her child, when “necessary”, even if the child can survive out of the womb? Can’t there be times when it is “necessary” for a mother to kill her child even though it can survive out of her womb?

yes bogey, like when the mother's life is in danger for example.

quote:

But who says we agree with him?

I agree. Who's to say that people have to listen to science (biology) or logic?

quote:

Childhood are your early years, but we don't count the pregnancy as part of your years.

First off, what do you mean by "years"? Our birth years? Of course the unborn doesn't have any birth years. But, if we are talking about the years of existence, then of course the pregnancy counts as "part of your years". Again, childhood is a person's earliest years; and the first years of existence are part of the earliest years.

Secondly, Yogore, it really doesn't matter if people should be able to consider the unborn to be a "child" or not. All that matters is if the unborn is a human being, and I don't see how you can refute that - that is basic biology.

quote:

yes but what you don't seem to understand is that at 8 months it can live outside the womb, at 3 it can't.

quote:

But anyway this is not why I'm pro-choice(or why I think abortion should be legal), I'm pro-choice because I think there are circumstances where people need to be able to have abortions, so it has to remain legal. AND I don't think we can determine in wich circumstances it's necessary.

You claimed that you are pro-choice not because of the fact that the child can’t survive out of the womb, but because it is sometimes necessary to kill your child. Would you still allow the mother to kill her human child even if it could survive out of the womb, because it could still be “necessary”? Because you claimed that the fact that the child can’t survive out of the womb was not a factor in your being pro-choice, and that it was the “necessity” that makes you pro-choice, aren’t you in favor of the mother killing her child, when “necessary”, even if the child can survive out of the womb? Can’t there be times when it is “necessary” for a mother to kill her child even though it can survive out of her womb?

quote:

yes but what you don't seem to understand is that at 8 months it can live outside the womb, at 3 it can't.
But anyway this is not why I'm pro-choice(or why I think abortion should be legal), I'm pro-choice because I think there are circumstances where people need to be able to have abortions, so it has to remain legal. AND I don't think we can determine in wich circumstances it's necessary.

It may not be able to live outside the womb yet but it is still living.
And if the circumstances were cridical then a doctor can give the mother the choice for abortion, but only if it is necessary. If we make it illegal we would lessen the percentage of the abortions used as birth control, or for irresponsable people. Many more lifes would be saved if it were made illegal (except for cases were the doctor said it may be necessary) than if it remained legal.

quote:

Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:

quote:

That I know of(tell me if I'm wrong), you aren't allowed to abort two days before you're supposed to give birth. Two days before it's born it's the same, we agree on that, but 6 months before it's not.

Developed-wise it isn't the same. Neither is a 1 yr old compared to a 15 yr old. It's still living, still has a heartbeat, still human. I've been over this many times and yet nobody seems to understand that. Of course it isn't as developed but you saying that it has less of a right to live at 21 weeks after conception then it does 8 months after conception is discrimination.

yes but what you don't seem to understand is that at 8 months it can live outside the womb, at 3 it can't.
But anyway this is not why I'm pro-choice(or why I think abortion should be legal), I'm pro-choice because I think there are circumstances where people need to be able to have abortions, so it has to remain legal. AND I don't think we can determine in wich circumstances it's necessary.

quote:

That I know of(tell me if I'm wrong), you aren't allowed to abort two days before you're supposed to give birth. Two days before it's born it's the same, we agree on that, but 6 months before it's not.

Developed-wise it isn't the same. Neither is a 1 yr old compared to a 15 yr old. It's still living, still has a heartbeat, still human. I've been over this many times and yet nobody seems to understand that. Of course it isn't as developed but you saying that it has less of a right to live at 21 weeks after conception then it does 8 months after conception is discrimination.

quote:

I don't see how you people think that a baby is not a baby until after it's born. It's still the same 2 days before birth that it is after. All birth does is bring the child into seeing, and toucing view, and remove it from the mother. But it is still as developed, as alive and as human as ever in the womb 2 days prior to birth.

That I know of(tell me if I'm wrong), you aren't allowed to abort two days before you're supposed to give birth. Two days before it's born it's the same, we agree on that, but 6 months before it's not.



Jamaica you said:

quote:

I think most people here are MAKING FUN OF ABORTION. IT is such a SERIOUS TOPIC, I wonder why everyone is making fun of it and posting idiotic and moronic answers.

and also:

quote:

No.... Why??? why are you so interested in killing humans?? Do you want to kill me??? or kill others here in YN??

talk about idiotic answers...

quote:

I'd rather die from some disease than having someone murder me

Odd, I always thought that wanting to be murdered was normal...

quote:

but we don't count the pregnancy as part of your years.

It does count. I mean, when women even get pregnant, they even want to have an x-ray or whatever of the fetus inside them and they even keep it as a souvenir... which means that a child's early days starts from the moment it is formed during conception.

quote:

I don't see how you people think that a baby is not a baby until after it's born.

I agree with Ohio's statement. I also fail to see why others think that a baby is NOT a baby when in fact, the moment conception has occurred and the moment that you realize you are pregnant, a baby is forming inside of you and it is human so, you have no right to kill it. Only God will decide whether that child will live or not. It is better for the child to die in natural death rather than you yourself will decide for its death.

quote:

So are fetuses adults? Should we give them voting rights?

*SIGHS* When will you all learn anyway??? No, fetuses are not adults, a fetus is a term used when a human life form is in the process of becoming into a baby. It is certainly alive and definitely human so... that baby can't vote right away but it certainly has the right to LIVE. *sighs* I think most people here are MAKING FUN OF ABORTION. IT is such a SERIOUS TOPIC, I wonder why everyone is making fun of it and posting idiotic and moronic answers.

The chinese are people who do that for starters yogore.

Who Ohio? I want specific groups of people.We can't have unsupported facts, now can we.

And so what if pregnancy doesn't last a year. If we counted it as part of our life, 3 months after birth would be our one year birthday, because that's how long we had been a child.

quote:

But who says we agree with him? Childhood are your early years, but we don't count the pregnancy as part of your years

No because pregnanct doesn't last a whole year. But some people do count from the estimated conception date.

quote:

Therefore it is not implying that fetuses are potential children but that they are children.

But who says we agree with him? Childhood are your early years, but we don't count the pregnancy as part of your years.

quote:

Are fetuses adults, if they are children? You seem to be saying that they are the equivalent because they are potential children. They are potential, and future adults too. So are fetuses adults? Should we give them voting rights?

BOGEY SAYS:

quote:

The earliest days of your humanhood are considered your "childhood" days. Therefore, birth would not make someone a child; conception would.

Therefore it is not implying that fetuses are potential children but that they are children. I don't see how you people think that a baby is not a baby until after it's born. It's still the same 2 days before birth that it is after. All birth does is bring the child into seeing, and toucing view, and remove it from the mother. But it is still as developed, as alive and as human as ever in the womb 2 days prior to birth.

Are fetuses adults, if they are children? You seem to be saying that they are the equivalent because they are potential children. They are potential, and future adults too. So are fetuses adults? Should we give them voting rights?

Bushism of the day:
"We're still being challenged in Iraq and the reason why is a free Iraq will be a major defeat in the cause of freedom." —George W. Bush, Charlotte, N.C., April 5, 2004

quote:

So after a certian age its ok to kill humans?

No.... Why??? why are you so interested in killing humans?? Do you want to kill me??? or kill others here in YN?? It ok to die naturally than kill someone. I'd rather die from some disease than having someone murder me

So after a certian age its ok to kill humans?

quote:

If a fetus is a child, is an embryo a child?

yes.... when conception has taken place, meaning, when the male and female human beings have had sexual intercourse and the woman is fertile, the sperm and the egg cell will join together as one and it is termed as a zygote, then an embryo, then a fetus and once it gets out of the woman during birth, it is now called a baby..... The process of conception may use different terms for the fertilized egg but it is still the same..... A human life form